| [00:11:51] |
<goobers> |
where is wpa_supplicant with iz2s? |
| [00:12:45] |
<goobers> |
when it boots up you can configure it but i'm unable to get an IP so i'm not sure what's going wrong, and if i choose no then try to configure it myself wpa_supplicant doesn't exist? o.O |
| [00:21:16] |
<goobers> |
aww im seeing its changing my mac address to a random one? my access point is setup to only allow certain mac address could this be the cause? with z2script.sh |
| [00:46:39] |
<rkdavis> |
goobers: yup |
| [00:47:17] |
<rkdavis> |
look for the updated script on my site and there should be one that uses the zipits real mac |
| [00:49:22] |
<goobers> |
could i just comment it out and add ifconfig eth0 hw ether 123456789abc? |
| [00:49:27] |
<goobers> |
right under it |
| [00:49:47] |
<goobers> |
or does it call $macaddr again in the script? |
| [00:50:53] |
<goobers> |
id actually like to set it up myself but i just tried and its disconnecting and reconnecting constantly with the wpa_supplicant.conf i wrote |
| [00:52:05] |
<rkdavis> |
nope only the one use of $macaddr |
| [00:52:23] |
<rkdavis> |
you can pull all that random mac stuff |
| [00:52:51] |
<goobers> |
im going to try just setting it up as that maybe the script could be edited to allow you to enter one or use random |
| [00:53:53] |
<rkdavis> |
yup that was what i was doing before i got busy |
| [00:54:13] |
<rkdavis> |
real mac, random or user settable in a little dialog |
| [00:54:29] |
<goobers> |
are you the guy who made the iz2s os? |
| [00:54:41] |
<rkdavis> |
partly |
| [00:54:55] |
<goobers> |
man its tight its like my dream os for anything :) |
| [00:55:00] |
<rkdavis> |
ray did most of the heavy lifting i just did all the power and brightness stuff |
| [00:55:03] |
<rkdavis> |
and the extras |
| [00:55:11] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
hello |
| [00:55:35] |
<goobers> |
its tight how links2 works is it using xwindows or is it some miraculous miracle child? i dont get it :D |
| [00:55:47] |
<rkdavis> |
framebuffer |
| [00:56:05] |
<rkdavis> |
using directfb graphics drivers |
| [00:56:38] |
<rkdavis> |
hi Conrad-T-Pino -- i was just off to bed but i can stay a few mins |
| [00:57:30] |
<goobers> |
my dream os was to get something that would let me use irssi and links this one fits the bill so nicely i was trying to get into doing my own with linux from scratch but it's just so hard with no one around me to inspire me to keep pursuing it or with others to make it fun |
| [00:57:57] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
sent you an email before I signed off |
| [00:58:11] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
there's a WWW program to test with |
| [00:58:28] |
<rkdavis> |
well glad you like it -- on the whole for actual use of the zipit for comms if you have no real nead for flashy stuff iz2s will do for most ppl |
| [00:59:20] |
<rkdavis> |
Conrad-T-Pino: ok i'll check my email -- basically your commands are what i do except it do thewm all in one rather than in blocks but either work so i'll modify mine to match yours |
| [00:59:42] |
<goobers> |
its such a good os even beyond the zipit though :D |
| [00:59:46] |
<rkdavis> |
yours is more readable mine uses less bytes :) |
| [01:00:00] |
<goobers> |
i want to use it as my main os :P |
| [01:00:29] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
I was getting errors when concatenating into a single argument; that's what worked for me on a Debian PC. |
| [01:00:31] |
<rkdavis> |
goobers: well it's magic comes from using busybox for most stuff and dialog for the pretty stuff )in other words ncurses) |
| [01:01:19] |
<rkdavis> |
Conrad-T-Pino: yes my curl uses a setup file too to set the url-encode stuff so you wouldn't have seen the spaces and stuff xlated |
| [01:01:19] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
I'm returning shell compatible text. |
| [01:01:44] |
<rkdavis> |
Conrad-T-Pino: that's not neccessarily true as we aren't in bash |
| [01:02:00] |
<rkdavis> |
we are in ash which has subtle differences but they aree fixable |
| [01:02:32] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
no plan to send commands; just variable sets and comments. |
| [01:02:34] |
<rkdavis> |
you won't see them though so it's a "NYP" |
| [01:03:57] |
<rkdavis> |
yup variables work differently in ash (a little bit anyway) but as i said it's NYP as you won't see them serverside |
| [01:05:51] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
I'll apt-get ash and work with it tomorrow. |
| [01:06:46] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
I want to pass you back values for reflection back to me later on. |
| [01:08:03] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
http://packages.debian.org/lenny/dash ??? |
| [01:08:50] |
<rkdavis> |
nope dash is no longer ash -- you have to use busybox 1.15 |
| [01:09:08] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
http://packages.debian.org/lenny/ash |
| [01:09:09] |
<rkdavis> |
to get the right version |
| [01:09:40] |
<rkdavis> |
nope has to be busybox |
| [01:10:02] |
<rkdavis> |
and has to be 1.16 or the one from iz2s |
| [01:10:16] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
http://packages.debian.org/lenny/busybox |
| [01:10:18] |
<rkdavis> |
s/1.16/1.15 |
| [01:10:43] |
<rkdavis> |
if that is version 1.15 then yes |
| [01:12:11] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 1:1.10.2-2) multi-call binary |
| [01:13:52] |
<rkdavis> |
thats always the problem with debian -- so old |
| [01:18:10] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
this reasonably correct: http://linux.die.net/man/1/ash |
| [01:19:56] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
Variables and Parameters |
| [01:19:56] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
The shell maintains a set of parameters. A parameter denoted by a name is called a variable. When starting up, the shell turns all the environment variables into shell variables. New variables can be set using the form |
| [01:19:56] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
name=value |
| [01:19:56] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
Variables set by the user must have a name consisting solely of alphabetics, numerics, and underscores - the first of which must not be numeric. A parameter can also be denoted by a number or a special character as explained below. |
| [01:20:27] |
<rkdavis> |
yup pretty much other than thee patches and the bits not in our version like alias and some redir stuff |
| [01:21:01] |
<rkdavis> |
like having to do <> as seperatee units not combined |
| [01:21:23] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
curl something > setsfile |
| [01:21:27] |
<Conrad-T-Pino> |
. setsfile |
| [01:22:06] |
<ssieb> |
is there some way to read the battery status? |
| [01:23:27] |
<rkdavis> |
ssieb: yes and no -- yes you can no it's not accurate |
| [01:23:53] |
<ssieb> |
is the status in the original app accurate? |
| [01:25:07] |
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| [01:26:42] |
<rkdavis> |
ssieb: yes the stock app's status is accurate as far as we know but it comes from a chip we don't have the data sheet for so we have to guess the values |
| [01:28:06] |
<ssieb> |
why aren't the zipit people more helpful with that? |
| [01:28:18] |
<ssieb> |
it seems like such a simple thing |
| [01:30:36] |
<rkdavis> |
it's not their choice |
| [01:30:47] |
<rkdavis> |
it's a chip with an nda on it so complain to that company |
| [01:31:00] |
<rkdavis> |
same as with the wifi -- nothing to do with zipit blame marvell |
| [01:38:08] |
<ssieb> |
what else does the chip do other than read the battery? is it really that special? I really don't understand these companies... |
| [01:38:20] |
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<rkdavis> |
it's an oem version of a standard chip but there is no data sheet on it availabel publically |
| [01:40:23] |
<rkdavis> |
we have a reasonable guesstimate but it fluctuates alot and we don't knwo the formula to get it accurate so we can only guess at a percentage and run it a few timees to get a rough value |
| [01:48:28] |
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<ssieb> |
rkdavis: what's the method to read the battery? |
| [02:19:38] |
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<goobers_zipit> |
this iz2s im in LOVE! |
| [02:46:33] |
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| [20:04:15] |
<rkdavis> |
do you think a jury of my peers would convict me if i topped the wife? she put mamma mia on again for the 40th time at least |
| [20:04:37] |
<rkdavis> |
i'd definatly get off if she starts singing |
| [20:05:39] |
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<Marex> |
rkdavis: you mean the one from ABBA ? |
| [20:19:47] |
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| [20:19:54] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: yup |
| [20:20:13] |
<Marex> |
you mean "I've been cheated by you ..." ? |
| [20:20:14] |
<Marex> |
this one ? |
| [20:21:21] |
<Marex> |
so I made up my mind it must come to an end |
| [20:21:26] |
<Marex> |
mmm ... classics |
| [20:21:40] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: do you also have fire in your soul ? :D |
| [20:21:57] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: how can you resist :b |
| [20:22:24] |
<rkdavis> |
yup classicsa but not after the 40th time in 7 months |
| [20:22:52] |
<Marex> |
ah I thought you heard that 40 times today |
| [20:22:54] |
<Marex> |
pfffff |
| [20:23:12] |
<Marex> |
when I discovered Deathklok, I listened to it a few times a day :) |
| [20:23:34] |
<rkdavis> |
nope only twice today -- she's been watching made for tv womens movies all day |
| [20:25:13] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: ok ... np: ABBA -- Dancing Queen |
| [20:29:18] |
<Marex> |
well ... switching back to Scorpions ... much better |
| [20:43:06] |
<goobers> |
scorpions with uli jon roth? |
| [20:43:15] |
<goobers> |
sails of charon? |
| [21:08:34] |
<ssieb> |
rkdavis: you said there was a way to read the battery level. I don't see any executable or /proc file for it. It is possible in a theoretical way or actually accessible? |
| [21:09:22] |
<rkdavis> |
ssieb: you need the application and the kernel module to do it |
| [21:09:52] |
<rkdavis> |
unless you are using .29 kernel; or above then it shoudl be exposed to /proc |
| [21:10:09] |
<ssieb> |
I'm still using the stock one |
| [21:10:33] |
<rkdavis> |
then you need the app and the module |
| [21:11:18] |
<ssieb> |
and that can be found where? |
| [21:12:32] |
<rkdavis> |
on my harddisk :) |
| [21:12:39] |
<ssieb> |
:-) |
| [21:13:02] |
<rkdavis> |
seriously if you had downloaed my first release of iz2se then it would be in there |
| [21:19:03] |
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| [21:20:17] |
<ssieb> |
but not in later ones? ok, I'll get that |
| [21:21:22] |
<ssieb> |
there are several different replacement shells. I haven't tried them all yet :-) |
| [21:24:34] |
<rkdavis> |
not really |
| [21:24:55] |
<rkdavis> |
there is rays base onethen my enhancemeants |
| [21:25:11] |
<rkdavis> |
basically the same just i add stuff |
| [21:25:41] |
<rkdavis> |
like power utild and make it pteyyier and motr stable |
| [21:25:58] |
<rkdavis> |
prettier and more stable even |
| [21:26:19] |
<ssieb> |
I'm currently using Ray's |
| [21:26:36] |
<ssieb> |
yours is an enhancement to that one? |
| [21:28:18] |
<rkdavis> |
yes -- tay used alot of my stuff but i continued after he went awol and iy has newer versions of al the apps |
| [21:28:29] |
<rkdavis> |
s/tay/ray |
| [21:50:53] |
<goobers> |
so dropbear is the way to remote into it? |
| [21:51:00] |
<goobers> |
or telnetd? |
| [21:51:52] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: why don't you just replace the old crap ? |
| [21:59:41] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: i have -- i took ray's stuff plus the stuff i sent him and then removed all the crap as i do newer versions and added my wifi script and the brioghtness stuff -- removeed all the crap libs and put in some extra modules etc. |
| [21:59:54] |
<rkdavis> |
goobers: dropbear |
| [22:01:04] |
<ChaplainChaplin> |
Old question but I want to be sure: Can the Zipit play nice with an 8GB miniSDHC card? |
| [22:01:26] |
<rkdavis> |
ChaplainChaplin: depands |
| [22:01:42] |
<rkdavis> |
on a stock zipit not a hope in hell on an upgraded one possibly |
| [22:01:54] |
<ChaplainChaplin> |
Upgraded firmware or hardware too? |
| [22:01:58] |
<rkdavis> |
some ppl claim that they can but i've never had any luck with anything bigger than 2gig |
| [22:02:10] |
<rkdavis> |
upgraded kernel and rootfs |
| [22:02:40] |
<ChaplainChaplin> |
Hm. Perhaps I'll just start with a 2GB then. |
| [22:02:44] |
<rkdavis> |
personally i don't think anything bigger than a 4gig SD card will work but we keep getting ppl claiming that sdhc work but... |
| [22:03:17] |
<rkdavis> |
maybe i just don't buy the right type but i've tried 5 different makes |
| [22:03:34] |
<rkdavis> |
so i stick with sandisk or the batch of generic ones i have |
| [22:04:48] |
<ChaplainChaplin> |
All right. Thanks for the advice, there are definitely some specs online but never enough. |
| [22:10:13] |
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| [22:11:16] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: with mainline kernel, 8GB works very well |
| [22:11:53] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: yup it probably does but 99.9999999999999999999% of ppl aren't using mainline :) |
| [22:12:02] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: and I meant totally kill the stuff on top of the old kernel and use the new stuff |
| [22:12:09] |
<rkdavis> |
so what i say stands -- the stock kernel can only do 2gig cards |
| [22:12:22] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: yeah ... why don't we push the people to use mainline then ? |
| [22:12:31] |
<rkdavis> |
and .29 possibly 4gig ones maybe more but it's iffy as far as i;m concerned |
| [22:13:10] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: because there are no 100% confirmed correct u-boot binaries and rootfs |
| [22:13:24] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: and what do you think I run ? |
| [22:13:35] |
<rkdavis> |
and i am still slaving away on stock stuff and gpsfan is lambing and sweetlilmre is who knows where so that leave s you |
| [22:13:54] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: but have you released your rootfs? |
| [22:13:57] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: I'm in Marvelland ;-) |
| [22:13:58] |
<rkdavis> |
:) |
| [22:14:03] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: what rootfs ? |
| [22:14:07] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: there's no rootfs |
| [22:14:11] |
<Marex> |
I use initramfs |
| [22:14:14] |
<rkdavis> |
one that runs from your u-boot |
| [22:14:24] |
<rkdavis> |
there are too many u-boot versions in eexistence too |
| [22:14:37] |
<rkdavis> |
sweetlilmre and i have 1 , gpsfan has his and you have yours |
| [22:14:45] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: why ? just compile the latest git.denx.de/u-boot-pxa.git devel branch |
| [22:14:49] |
<Marex> |
that's the only version |
| [22:14:50] |
<Marex> |
period |
| [22:15:04] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: mine is from last april |
| [22:15:10] |
<rkdavis> |
gpsfans is from this jan |
| [22:15:19] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: well update it then |
| [22:15:44] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: I don't have crosstools setup for that stuff and can't set them up for the foreseeable future |
| [22:15:52] |
<Marex> |
why not ? |
| [22:16:06] |
<rkdavis> |
computer is over heating, the sd reader in my computeer doens't work under linux and i am working on stock stuff |
| [22:16:08] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: and btw. you can run any rootfs you want on top of the mainline kernel (wow !) |
| [22:16:17] |
<rkdavis> |
i want to be able to leave stock behind but can't atm |
| [22:16:32] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: yes you can in theory but no you can't |
| [22:16:40] |
<rkdavis> |
you need one that is setup correctly |
| [22:16:41] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: why not ? |
| [22:16:46] |
<Marex> |
what ? |
| [22:17:06] |
<rkdavis> |
the debian (rootnexus/sidetrack) are configured one way, mozzwald's ubuntu is aniother way |
| [22:17:29] |
<rkdavis> |
for there to be a standard working rootfs fiorst of all an decision needs to be made on partitioning of the sd card |
| [22:17:45] |
<Marex> |
configured ... like how ? |
| [22:18:06] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: my uboot uses 1 fat part, 1 ext2 part and one ext3 part, gpsfans uses 1 fat , 1 ext2 |
| [22:18:07] |
<Marex> |
well the partitioning is obvious -- ext2 first partition, swap second |
| [22:18:09] |
<Marex> |
what else do you need |
| [22:18:23] |
<Marex> |
ext3 is overkill |
| [22:18:25] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: no it's not -- i don't believe in swap |
| [22:18:33] |
<rkdavis> |
on an sd card |
| [22:18:42] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: neither do I, but the device lacks ram |
| [22:18:46] |
<rkdavis> |
no matter what crap ppl spout, it is not a good idea and never will be |
| [22:19:05] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: if you can't run it in ram then you have no business running it |
| [22:19:30] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: that's bullshit |
| [22:19:34] |
<rkdavis> |
this is not a desktop -- this is a little device and one app at a time is the way to do it |
| [22:19:41] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: try compiling webkit-gtk ... |
| [22:19:57] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: not really ... you can page out apps you don't use much so swap is fine this way |
| [22:20:27] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: that is still unneccessary writing to the sd card |
| [22:20:50] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: the NAND will withstand enough |
| [22:20:54] |
<Marex> |
and the cards are cheap |
| [22:20:57] |
<rkdavis> |
any why the hell would i compile on the zipit anything let alone webkit |
| [22:21:06] |
<ssieb> |
swap on an embedded system?? |
| [22:21:25] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: you said I had no business running stuff that I cant run on RAM ... that's bullcrap |
| [22:21:37] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: of course, compiling webkit-gtk on desktop ... linkage takes 2 gigs |
| [22:21:45] |
<ssieb> |
that's standard policy on a system this size... |
| [22:21:47] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: my system killed the process |
| [22:22:01] |
<rkdavis> |
it goes against my principles -- and i have never believed in swap it's a nasty hack from lazy ppl |
| [22:22:26] |
<rkdavis> |
it encourages bad programming practices |
| [22:22:27] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: well sorry, my laptop only has 2 gigs of RAM and I certainly want to compile webkit-gtk |
| [22:22:32] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: so I'm a lazy person? fine ... |
| [22:22:41] |
<rkdavis> |
but then again you are all younger than 35 so wouldn't know any better |
| [22:23:12] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: just admit swap has it's place |
| [22:23:44] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: i will never admit that swap has a place on anything smaller than a mainframe |
| [22:24:14] |
<rkdavis> |
and you shoudl be against it because you work with bootloaders |
| [22:24:40] |
<rkdavis> |
where every byte counts -- swap enourages ppl to not remeemebr that every byte counts |
| [22:24:43] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: so what ? swap is ok ... you can remove pages that are not often used and have more pages available more faster |
| [22:24:47] |
<rkdavis> |
this is what has lead to bloat |
| [22:25:11] |
<rkdavis> |
and swap on flash is a completly idiotic idea |
| [22:25:32] |
<rkdavis> |
swap on a hd maybe but on flash is idiotic |
| [22:25:40] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: why ? |
| [22:25:51] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: just because you don't like it ? |
| [22:26:01] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: for the same reason you wouldn't put it on an eeprom |
| [22:26:11] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: now that's totally stupid |
| [22:26:24] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: NAND can do much more reprogramming cycles |
| [22:26:31] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: flash is not a finite resource |
| [22:26:36] |
<rkdavis> |
infinate resource |
| [22:26:40] |
<rkdavis> |
i meant |
| [22:26:42] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: and it's cheap ... so why would you care |
| [22:26:51] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: fine, but you won't be able to kill it in two days |
| [22:26:53] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: cheap is relative |
| [22:26:58] |
<Marex> |
(if you don't behave like an idiot of course) |
| [22:27:47] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: ok ... let's see ... card is $10 and you'll kill one card a year ... that'll be like $20 per lifespan of the device |
| [22:27:52] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: well that's where ppl are acting like idiots -- gcc on a zipit, dosbox on a zipit, scrummvm on a zipit |
| [22:28:09] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: i am now on my 15th card in 9 months |
| [22:28:26] |
<rkdavis> |
i use a card a fortnight for dev |
| [22:28:27] |
<Marex> |
how did you manage to do that ... |
| [22:28:43] |
<rkdavis> |
after 2 weeks most cards are unusable on the zipit and are cellphone fodder |
| [22:28:47] |
<Marex> |
only two cards from about 10 I have failed |
| [22:29:10] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: because i make maybe 200 to 300 changes to z2script a day if not more |
| [22:29:21] |
<rkdavis> |
plus other stuff that can't be doen from nfs |
| [22:29:41] |
<Marex> |
so what ? you rewrite the whole card all the time ? |
| [22:29:48] |
<rkdavis> |
my curreent z2script is over 200k long plus soem other scripts |
| [22:30:31] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: of course i don't i maybe reqrite the whole card ever few days but rememebr how nand/nor works |
| [22:31:11] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: SD is NAND only ... maybe some ancient protos were NOR |
| [22:31:16] |
<rkdavis> |
write 1 byte and it writes maybe 128bytes (whateever the smallest bloxck is) and it uses wear leveling so it might be anywhere |
| [22:31:32] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: don't forget anything newer than pxa270 boots from NAND ... so I know well how that works |
| [22:32:06] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: and exactly how many times do you write to the nand on a pxa27x? once if you do it right |
| [22:32:23] |
<rkdavis> |
the sd card is different you might write every 3 seconds if you have swap |
| [22:32:29] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: 20 times a day is no problem |
| [22:32:48] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: I had one board where I rewrote the sector 0 of NAND like 50 times a day |
| [22:32:52] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: well i write 10x that amount |
| [22:33:05] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: but I didn't use wear leveling |
| [22:33:15] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: I wrote sector 0 again and again |
| [22:33:23] |
<Marex> |
(yes, sector 0 is more durable, that's true) |
| [22:33:28] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: and you were lucky -- nand lasts between 0 and 1000000 times and there is no counter |
| [22:33:35] |
<rkdavis> |
so why take the risk |
| [22:33:43] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: right ... and that's a lot |
| [22:33:48] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: so why would you care ... |
| [22:33:54] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: because i do |
| [22:34:16] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: and I don't ... because you won't be able to kill the card by swapping |
| [22:34:18] |
<rkdavis> |
and i don't beeleive in swap on flash -- it is a cop out for bad programming practicves |
| [22:34:55] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: well i HAVE killed cards with swap so i prefer to go with my observation rather than someepne telling me it can't happen |
| [22:34:56] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: I managed to wear an old mmc card back in old times by swapping |
| [22:35:03] |
<Marex> |
but that was once, technology advanced etc. |
| [22:35:28] |
*** |
aliosa27 has joined #zipit |
| [22:35:32] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: the cards are cheap enough to make me unconcerned |
| [22:35:34] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: yes technology advances and the limitations remain |
| [22:35:42] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: well i am concerned |
| [22:35:52] |
<rkdavis> |
so i don't use it and i don't recommend it |
| [22:36:00] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: we won't make a deal here then |
| [22:36:03] |
<rkdavis> |
evening aliosa27 |
| [22:36:07] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: yup |
| [22:36:12] |
<aliosa27> |
evening |
| [22:36:14] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: we will never agree |
| [22:36:18] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: anyway ... back to the orifinal topic |
| [22:36:21] |
<Marex> |
*original |
| [22:36:30] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: imagine a card with only ext2 |
| [22:36:35] |
<rkdavis> |
as i don't believe in wasting resources even if it's possible and swap is an anathima to me |
| [22:36:35] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: better ? |
| [22:37:08] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: well other than windows can't write to it :) yes |
| [22:37:27] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: who cares about wincrap ? |
| [22:37:37] |
<Marex> |
those pitiful people will install windows ext2 driver |
| [22:37:49] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: before we got sidetracked what i was trying to point out is that all the variosu rootfs are partittioned in different ways and the u-boots expect different partititons layouts |
| [22:38:10] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: the ext2 windows driver doesn't allow formatting |
| [22:39:05] |
<ssieb> |
oh, I just read back. I'm using an 8GB SD card currently |
| [22:39:06] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: the partitioning for u-booted zipits shoudl be 100meg fat16 partiton (for uImage and the wifi drivers and sharing) then a ext2/3 partition in my opinion |
| [22:39:22] |
<rkdavis> |
but then sweetlilmr's uboot won't work |
| [22:39:42] |
<rkdavis> |
and if we do it for sweet's setup then gpsfans won't work |
| [22:39:45] |
<ssieb> |
only problem I have is that when I reboot it always seems to go to the stock app then I have to reboot and occasionally it doesn't boot so I have to hard reset it... |
| [22:40:10] |
<rkdavis> |
now the uboot with scripts might be ok but then we still need to standardise on it and most ppl don't have the ability to recompile atm |
| [22:40:12] |
* |
ssieb is planning on getting a smaller one though... |
| [22:40:15] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: why not storing kernel in flash then ? |
| [22:40:24] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: that'd be easiest |
| [22:40:37] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: you mean on the zipit? |
| [22:40:40] |
<Marex> |
yes |
| [22:40:49] |
<rkdavis> |
ssieb: that's normally the case with a borderline sd card |
| [22:40:55] |
<Marex> |
oh ... or you refuse to rewrite it because it might die ? ;-) |
| [22:41:20] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: nopee the kernel on the zipit is fine -- how often will you redo that -- maybe once a quarter |
| [22:41:38] |
<rkdavis> |
but kernel on the sd card is better |
| [22:41:44] |
<rkdavis> |
easier to change |
| [22:41:54] |
<ssieb> |
possibly, the video camera I got it for seems to not be entirely happy with it either |
| [22:42:12] |
<ssieb> |
but it was more a comment that SDHC does seem to work |
| [22:42:16] |
<rkdavis> |
althoug if you had the kernel on the zipit as long as it had kexeec you could have the best of both worlds |
| [22:44:23] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: the way it's now is the best |
| [22:44:31] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: you have a script of commands on the SD card |
| [22:45:01] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: now it only supports fat on part1, but that can be easily changes in uboot to support both ext2 or whatever uboot can do |
| [22:45:04] |
* |
ChaplainChaplin just ordered me a Z2. Woo! |
| [22:46:11] |
<aliosa27> |
if anyone wants, before she goes to ebay land, I have a z2 to sell |
| [22:46:15] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: if uboot can be look for uimage in partitikn 1 whether it be ext2 or fat or hfs or whatever but the rootfs is on partition 2 no matter what that would work |
| [22:46:32] |
<ChaplainChaplin> |
Haha, I should have asked. I just went to Amazon. |
| [22:46:36] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: uboot only supports ext2 and fat |
| [22:46:46] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: jffs is not a choice for sd |
| [22:48:07] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: you knew what i mean |
| [22:49:03] |
<rkdavis> |
if the 1st partitin can be any format but be assigned to be the uImage part but the 2nd part is the rootfs then that works -- the big thing i have is that my 1st part ahs to be fat but gpsfans rootfs has to be the 1st partititon |
| [22:49:52] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: we need to make a decision then |
| [22:50:04] |
<Marex> |
part1 -- 16 mb vfat, the rest -- noone cares |
| [22:50:09] |
<Marex> |
fine by you ? |
| [22:50:25] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: it's you decision as i don't have the tools installed atm and i'm working in stock |
| [22:50:36] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: that works for me |
| [22:51:02] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: so let's make it a rule |
| [22:51:14] |
<rkdavis> |
now the big thing is to get all the existing rootfs configured like that, should be just a matter of editing the fstab and repartititoning and copying the files |
| [22:51:43] |
<Marex> |
repartitioning ? |
| [22:52:00] |
<Marex> |
don't tell me they are distributed as a disk images |
| [22:52:31] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: yes 99% of ppl us the img filees and dd them to the sd card -- go figure |
| [22:53:16] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: bbl ... I'm off to wc, need to barf |
| [22:53:41] |
<rkdavis> |
ok must have been eating american food then :) |
| [22:53:47] |
<rkdavis> |
or drinkign american beer |
| [22:54:11] |
<Marex> |
why don't they just mount the partition and unpack it ? |
| [22:54:15] |
<Marex> |
good god ... |
| [22:57:14] |
<absamide> |
Most of the people are not aware of various alternatives. Linux is something they dabble in or are just starting to experiment with. They just don't know any better so learn one easy way to accomplish things and go with it. Education is key and as one who is trying to learn it is definitely an uphill struggle to learn all the different things. |
| [22:59:09] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: it's actualy because most ppl were doing it from windows and the windows ext2 tools suck so the images were done |
| [22:59:49] |
<ChaplainChaplin> |
I never really liked using Linux on the desktop, but for really old or minimal hardware like this it's great. |
| [22:59:58] |
<ChaplainChaplin> |
And they don't maintain good software for Windows 3.1 anymore. |
| [23:00:24] |
<aliosa27> |
lol |
| [23:00:53] |
<absamide> |
I am not sure I have ever seen that combination of "good software" and "Windows 3.1" in the same sentence before. |
| [23:01:04] |
<aliosa27> |
ski free was good software |
| [23:01:06] |
<aliosa27> |
for 3.1 |
| [23:01:20] |
<absamide> |
Never used it. I stand corrected. :-) |
| [23:01:22] |
<ssieb> |
I think I actually played that :-) |
| [23:01:38] |
<Marex> |
ChaplainChaplin: and what would you use on ARM11MPcore ? |
| [23:01:50] |
<ChaplainChaplin> |
aliosa27: Skifree, yeah! |
| [23:01:50] |
<Marex> |
ChaplainChaplin: it has 4 CPUs, loads of RAM ... doesn't run wincrap |
| [23:02:29] |
<ChaplainChaplin> |
Marex: I'd run whatever was best that worked with it. |
| [23:03:06] |
<ssieb> |
Marex: what system has that? |
| [23:03:08] |
<ChaplainChaplin> |
Marex: I'm gonna regret this, but I like XP and I still prefer too many Windows-only apps to the Linux alternatives. |
| [23:03:51] |
<Marex> |
ssieb: realview PB11MPcore |
| [23:05:04] |
<absamide> |
Many of the Windows apps are good, the problem is they are made only for Windows because the writer just doesn't feel spending the time to make for Mac or Linux to be worthwhile due to 90% of their purchasers will be looking for the Windows version. That doesn't mean Windows is the best, just the biggest. |
| [23:05:56] |
<ssieb> |
Marex: nice! any actual devices with it? |
| [23:06:11] |
<ChaplainChaplin> |
absamide: Admittedly. |
| [23:06:52] |
<Marex> |
ssieb: there was a board for that ... use google |
| [23:07:07] |
* |
ssieb was trying |
| [23:07:15] |
<ssieb> |
just a development board? |
| [23:07:37] |
<ssieb> |
are you involved with the openzipit project on sourceforge? |
| [23:07:44] |
<Marex> |
ssieb: me ? |
| [23:07:48] |
<ssieb> |
yes |
| [23:07:57] |
* |
Marex doesn't know anything about development |
| [23:08:03] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: right ? |
| [23:08:16] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: :) |
| [23:08:59] |
<ssieb> |
it links to you as working on the Z2Mainline |
| [23:11:08] |
<Marex> |
marex@rin:~/Palm/eric/pxa-linux-2.6$ grep -A5 Z2 MAINTAINERS |
| [23:11:08] |
<Marex> |
ARM/ZIPIT Z2 SUPPORT |
| [23:11:08] |
<Marex> |
M: Marek Vasut <marek.vasut@gmail.com> |
| [23:11:08] |
<Marex> |
L: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org (moderated for non-subscribers) |
| [23:11:08] |
<Marex> |
S: Maintained |
| [23:11:10] |
<Marex> |
F: arch/arm/mach-pxa/z2.c |
| [23:11:13] |
<Marex> |
F: arch/arm/mach-pxa/include/mach-pxa/z2.h |
| [23:11:20] |
<Marex> |
happier ? |
| [23:11:34] |
<Marex> |
I also maintain u-boot-pxa (the whole thing, pxa branch) |
| [23:11:47] |
<Marex> |
and various other crap ... |
| [23:12:46] |
<ssieb> |
ah, cool :-) |
| [23:13:14] |
* |
ssieb thinks he doesn't have time to deal with reflashing the thing right now |
| [23:13:45] |
<ssieb> |
I just want to write a couple of apps to run on it, so I should be able to use the stock system with one of the new shells |
| [23:14:13] |
<ssieb> |
it will be enough time just to set up a building environment... |
| [23:19:21] |
<rkdavis> |
ssieb: for simple C apps if you don't want to setup a whole dev setup tinycc will work in stock |
| [23:20:07] |
<rkdavis> |
if you want to build stuff that use a configure script though or similar then you'll want to setup a vm with scratchbox in it |
| [23:21:01] |
<ssieb> |
no, just simple apps |
| [23:21:24] |
<Marex> |
ssieb: use emdebian and install the toolchain |
| [23:21:27] |
<rkdavis> |
then tinycc will do you then |
| [23:21:29] |
<ssieb> |
you're saying to run tinycc on the Z2? |
| [23:21:46] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: emdebian doesn't work wiith stock |
| [23:22:05] |
<rkdavis> |
ssieb: you could but it works in linux or a vm too |
| [23:22:27] |
<rkdavis> |
personally i'd put it in a vm but of you want it will work on the z2 directly |
| [23:22:51] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: and the emdebian toolchain is wrong for stock too |
| [23:25:13] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: stock is ancient ... eabi issues? fine ... stock is crap and totally dead |
| [23:25:14] |
<ssieb> |
the tinycc I found appears to be only for x86... |
| [23:25:30] |
<rkdavis> |
ssieb: the docs are out of date |
| [23:25:35] |
<ssieb> |
Marex: except that anything else requires reflashing |
| [23:25:45] |
<Marex> |
ssieb: and what's the problem with that ? |
| [23:25:51] |
<rkdavis> |
you can use it to compile itself to be an arm binary or make arm binareies |
| [23:25:51] |
<ssieb> |
rkdavis: do you have a link? |
| [23:25:54] |
<Marex> |
you can always reflash it back |
| [23:26:01] |
<ssieb> |
Marex: it's complicated? ;-) |
| [23:26:13] |
<rkdavis> |
ssieb: the link is the pagee you found |
| [23:26:31] |
<rkdavis> |
0.9.25 iirc -- the latest makes arm binariees |
| [23:26:55] |
<rkdavis> |
http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/tinycc |
| [23:27:19] |
*** |
ChaplainChaplin has quit IRC |
| [23:27:25] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: stock is not dead i know of 1000 zipits running it |
| [23:27:39] |
<rkdavis> |
stock is the most common zipit os |
| [23:27:52] |
<ssieb> |
interesting. that page isn't even in the first page on google searching for tinycc |
| [23:29:01] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: and if you want to talk dead then well uboot is the one that is dead :) noone uses that :) |
| [23:31:36] |
<ssieb> |
Ray has a VM image for developing, but the torrent is dead |
| [23:31:50] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: fine by me ... I can always drop the support from u-boot-pxa |
| [23:31:51] |
*** |
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| [23:32:03] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: if it's dead, no need to maintain it ... |
| [23:32:10] |
<rkdavis> |
:) |
| [23:32:51] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: you should be seeing it as a challenge -- convert everyinee to u-boot |
| [23:33:09] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: it's their problem ... I don't care |
| [23:33:21] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: they won't pay ... marvell will |
| [23:33:29] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: i was just saying that stock is not dead |
| [23:33:44] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: stock is so deprecated it's dead |
| [23:33:48] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: the majority of zipits currently run it and it ahs its uses |
| [23:34:07] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: how can something be dead if ppl are developing for it? |
| [23:35:40] |
<rkdavis> |
uboot would be better for alot of things but alot of ppl don't want to use it and using your logic it's uboot is dead not stock -- actually it's blob/.29 that are the evil incarnate -- stock has it's use and uboot has it's use |
| [23:36:01] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: people are often developing in a wrong way |
| [23:36:12] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: avoid it ... the same thing killed hackndev |
| [23:36:16] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: nope ppl develope for what they want |
| [23:36:25] |
<rkdavis> |
i want/need stock so that's what i work on |
| [23:36:41] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: anarchy is not a good way to develop FOSS |
| [23:36:53] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: this proved to be incorrect and unhealthy |
| [23:37:19] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: uboot is not a good idea when you are working with 300+ zipits and uboot/full linux is not what is needed or wanted |
| [23:37:47] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: using deprecated/buggy crap is neither |
| [23:37:49] |
<rkdavis> |
stock is faster, less resource hungrey and does what it needs to do |
| [23:38:24] |
<absamide> |
So if they opened the source are there improvements that could be made to the existing stock OS? |
| [23:38:30] |
<rkdavis> |
and boots in 15 seconds |
| [23:38:49] |
<rkdavis> |
absamide: nope because marvell are involved |
| [23:39:06] |
<rkdavis> |
absamide: and the kernel source and blob are open and available |
| [23:39:39] |
<rkdavis> |
the only propriatory things in stock are the results of the battery chip, the stock app and marvell's stuff |
| [23:40:11] |
<rkdavis> |
and as the stock os isn't buggy for the hardware it runs on anyway |
| [23:40:50] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: what do you have against marvell ?! |
| [23:40:52] |
<rkdavis> |
the only probalem with stock is how the /backdoor/ works |
| [23:41:03] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: they didn'tlet me into the intranet |
| [23:41:31] |
<rkdavis> |
and they don't release firmware source so cripple their devices -- i like marvell but they make the cia look likee blabbermouths |
| [23:41:53] |
<rkdavis> |
i've seen chattier mutes |
| [23:41:55] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: they won't let you into the intranet ... why would they |
| [23:42:04] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: because i applieed |
| [23:42:09] |
<Marex> |
so what ? |
| [23:42:13] |
<Marex> |
you're not worth them |
| [23:42:24] |
<Marex> |
you don't make HW or anything ... why would they care |
| [23:42:27] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: well that's where they made their mistake |
| [23:42:29] |
<Marex> |
they're not charity |
| [23:42:44] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: no ... that's not a mistake ... that's a way to make money |
| [23:42:59] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: i told my client to go buy from somewhere else -- he just spent 50 grand on hardware from other companies |
| [23:43:16] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: buy what ? |
| [23:43:43] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: buy SoC, wifi chipsets and various other bits and pieces |
| [23:44:02] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: if they don't care for quality ... their problem |
| [23:44:12] |
<Marex> |
rkdavis: marvell's profitable so this strategy seems to work |
| [23:44:30] |
*** |
smartasstronaut has quit IRC |
| [23:45:20] |
<rkdavis> |
Marex: well they didn't even followup with my client -- if they don't want to sell their stuff that's their loss |
| [23:47:12] |
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