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| [08:37:32] |
<rkdavis> |
morning all |
| [08:38:28] |
<dTal> |
So I just had this rush of an epiphany regarding the true purpose of the escape key. |
| [08:38:44] |
<dTal> |
Just this minute. |
| [08:38:51] |
<dTal> |
My head is a-whirl. |
| [08:39:01] |
<Mcavity> |
morning |
| [08:39:19] |
<dTal> |
Also, morning/afternoon. |
| [08:47:20] |
<rkdavis> |
we are snowed in effectivly today |
| [08:47:39] |
<rkdavis> |
about a foot but lots of 4 to 6 foot drifts :) |
| [08:53:30] |
<dTal> |
what fun |
| [08:58:06] |
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| [09:35:04] |
<Adnyxo> |
i really like the ikit form factor |
| [09:35:12] |
<Adnyxo> |
just not the projected price |
| [09:37:38] |
<Reddog^> |
my snow -> http://picasaweb.google.com/reddog176/Blizzard202262010?feat=directlink |
| [09:44:37] |
<Adnyxo> |
wow |
| [09:47:35] |
<dTal> |
I don't like the iKit, to tell the truth. As I've said before, the lack of a proper sound chip is a dealbreaker for me. |
| [09:48:08] |
<dTal> |
But there are other reasons. Battery life looks poor, as is to be expected since they put all that stuff in there. |
| [09:48:47] |
<dTal> |
It's a shame, because with a little more effort and thought it could have been total geek porn. |
| [09:49:34] |
<dTal> |
The annoying thing is they've probably done damage to the reputation of the microbook form factor, because their implementation is kind of useless. |
| [09:50:55] |
<dTal> |
Have they made real ones yet? Is there time to save the design? |
| [09:51:26] |
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| [09:53:16] |
<dTal> |
I'm also put off by the misleading advertising that it's so many hundreds cheaper than an iPhone. |
| [09:58:47] |
<dTal> |
And they're marketing it wrong. |
| [10:21:56] |
* |
dTal had to do Zipit surgery today. |
| [10:22:23] |
<rkdavis> |
do you use anesthetic? |
| [10:22:38] |
<rkdavis> |
i.e. you drank a bottle of scotch first |
| [10:22:41] |
<dTal> |
...it wasn't plugged in? |
| [10:23:14] |
<dTal> |
It was actually the power adapter that needed (preventative) surgery. |
| [10:23:51] |
<dTal> |
The inner ring somehow got smooshed over to the side and was microns away from touching the outer ring. |
| [10:24:21] |
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| [10:24:50] |
<dTal> |
So I stuck a needle into the inner ring and heated the end up with a lighter until the plastic melted, then centered it with the needle and let it set again. |
| [10:25:09] |
<dTal> |
It took a few tries but it's good now. |
| [10:25:14] |
<rkdavis> |
good |
| [10:25:57] |
<dTal> |
I don't know how it happened, since the inner ring was encased in solid plastic. I guess it must have gotten hot or something. |
| [10:46:17] |
<dTal> |
Hmm, seems mmcqd is being pegged for excessive cpu usage. |
| [10:48:50] |
<dTal> |
Is the SD mounted synchronously or ansynchronously? |
| [10:49:21] |
<rkdavis> |
not sure about it's sexual preferences |
| [10:49:40] |
<rkdavis> |
:) |
| [10:49:50] |
<rkdavis> |
but sreriously gpsfan would know that |
| [10:50:06] |
<rkdavis> |
why though? |
| [10:50:19] |
<dTal> |
Hm, asynchronous |
| [10:50:28] |
<dTal> |
Oh, just trying to speed things up. |
| [10:51:05] |
<dTal> |
Elinks is stupid slow, and memory seems to be the issue there. |
| [10:52:14] |
<rkdavis> |
i've found memory and links2 can be a bit of a problem too in stock, anything over about 400k seems to cause some really weird crashes |
| [10:52:20] |
<dTal> |
I wonder what kind of speed gains or losses would attend a squashfs rootfs on the ROM. |
| [10:52:32] |
<dTal> |
You get a lot of segfaults? |
| [10:53:32] |
<rkdavis> |
no segfaults |
| [10:53:47] |
<rkdavis> |
it freezes hard or crashes and reboots |
| [10:53:56] |
<dTal> |
I get a fair few, but only when there's a lot of swapping going on. It seems to happen more when things are swapping in rather than out. |
| [10:53:58] |
<rkdavis> |
and the next reboot sometimes fials |
| [10:54:17] |
<dTal> |
And a lot more on this SD, funnily. |
| [10:54:24] |
<rkdavis> |
i've not had a segfault at all on stock except with mixing armv4 and armv5te binaries |
| [10:54:43] |
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| [10:54:57] |
<dTal> |
Stock, as in kernel and z2shell? |
| [10:55:59] |
<rkdavis> |
yup |
| [10:56:17] |
<dTal> |
What about other kernels? |
| [10:57:01] |
<rkdavis> |
basically scratchbox made binaries and buildroot binaries don't mix well even if built static which i don't understand, unless the kernel is setting something in the processor that causes the problem, maybe turning off a flag |
| [10:57:08] |
<rkdavis> |
i don't use other kernels |
| [10:57:48] |
<dTal> |
(note: I don't actually get to see the segfault messages because the programs that crash are in gnu screen windows that immediately close, but I know this is what's occuring) |
| [10:58:10] |
<rkdavis> |
well i do but not using them for this zipit and these progs |
| [10:58:14] |
<dTal> |
It's not the binaries, it's soley a problem to do with ram and swap. |
| [10:58:24] |
<rkdavis> |
dTal: no it's not |
| [10:58:54] |
<rkdavis> |
a prog that is using 10k is not going to cause a problem when i have 20meg free |
| [10:58:55] |
<dTal> |
Then why does it only happen on ram hogging apps, during times of great swap activity? |
| [10:59:08] |
<rkdavis> |
well for you it might be but for me it's not |
| [10:59:10] |
<dTal> |
And why is it worse on this SD? |
| [10:59:21] |
<rkdavis> |
because you have wear on the sd |
| [10:59:30] |
<dTal> |
This one's newer |
| [10:59:40] |
<rkdavis> |
i don;t know why ppl insist on putting swap on sd cards -- it's not good |
| [10:59:54] |
<rkdavis> |
yes it's possible but it's not good |
| [11:00:01] |
<rkdavis> |
and yes it does mean some things work |
| [11:00:06] |
<dTal> |
The first SD was actually slower - I had to buy this one to flash it |
| [11:00:14] |
<rkdavis> |
but i'd prfer not to be buying sdcards every couple of weeks |
| [11:01:06] |
<dTal> |
Well, I think swap is absolutely neccesary, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do our best to avoid using it |
| [11:01:21] |
<rkdavis> |
i learnt the hardway, i was editing somefiles and testing things between edits, after a few days and doing it about 100 times a day the wear algo on the sd card slowed the sd card down to such a level it's just cellphone fodder now |
| [11:02:01] |
<rkdavis> |
dTal: the swap is only neccessary if you want to run larger progs, run one or two thing sonly and not massive progs then there is no need for swap |
| [11:02:33] |
<rkdavis> |
anything that would need swap is probably going to have other problems too |
| [11:03:03] |
<dTal> |
Nah, it's like multicore systems - just because an individual app can't use it doesn't mean it isn't useful |
| [11:03:10] |
<rkdavis> |
yes you CAN run them but it doesn't mean you SHOULD |
| [11:04:08] |
<rkdavis> |
just because i am qualified to run a powerstation (and i am actually) doesn't mean i should |
| [11:04:21] |
<rkdavis> |
but i would run a small generator |
| [11:04:28] |
<rkdavis> |
it's horses for courses |
| [11:04:36] |
<dTal> |
if you have a large program that needs 24 megs of ram and has the user's full attention (ie no task switching) you can swap out sleeping or paused processes and there's no harm in that is there? |
| [11:04:43] |
<rkdavis> |
personally i prefer small and lean |
| [11:05:01] |
<dTal> |
right |
| [11:05:05] |
<dTal> |
fair enough |
| [11:05:15] |
<rkdavis> |
dTal: but each time that swap gets written that's one time less it can be written to |
| [11:05:29] |
<dTal> |
a truism if ever there was one :) |
| [11:06:16] |
<rkdavis> |
and of course swap will be in one location so the wear algorithm can't use it's full abilities |
| [11:06:21] |
<dTal> |
just saying if you're careful with your system design, swap can be used without icurring undue wear |
| [11:06:33] |
<dTal> |
of course, that isn't how it is right now |
| [11:06:48] |
<rkdavis> |
actually it would be so much better if we just had one partition on an sd card then the sd card would last longer in th elong run |
| [11:07:03] |
<dTal> |
swap file, perhaps? |
| [11:07:25] |
<dTal> |
what's the cpu hit for that? |
| [11:08:03] |
<rkdavis> |
no cpu hit, why would there be the problem is that u-boot really needs two partitions |
| [11:08:08] |
<dTal> |
what's the cpu hit for that?[B[4~[1~qi |
| [11:08:32] |
<rkdavis> |
and really and really only z2shell will work with a single partition |
| [11:11:13] |
<aliosa27> |
debian and oe can work from one partition |
| [11:11:34] |
<aliosa27> |
swapfile, disable atime, keep logs in ram |
| [11:13:29] |
<dTal> |
How fast is the system ROM on reads, compared to an average SD? |
| [11:14:13] |
<rkdavis> |
aliosa27: i was talking u-boot which really needs 2 partitions to keep things organise, yes it can work with one but easier if you use 2 |
| [11:14:27] |
<aliosa27> |
gotcha, yeh |
| [11:14:43] |
<Guest28947> |
I run Aliosa27's debian without a swap and it runs like a champ. |
| [11:19:12] |
<dTal> |
Hm, looks like the answer to the speed question is "it depends. |
| [11:19:58] |
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| [11:20:35] |
<dTal> |
But on the whole the SD looks faster. |
| [11:22:55] |
<dTal> |
The ROM has a slight edge when read a single byte at a time, but as soon as you start allowing larger block sizes the SD races ahead. |
| [11:23:25] |
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| [11:23:45] |
<dTal> |
And if you factor in the speed penalty of squashfs, there'd be a definite hit. |
| [11:25:36] |
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| [11:30:33] |
<Guest28947> |
@dTal I always figured the ROM would be faster... Is it serial? |
| [11:30:33] |
<SB-Zipit> |
Guest28947: Error: "dTal" is not a valid command. |
| [11:32:16] |
<rkdavis> |
heh :) |
| [11:32:36] |
<dTal> |
I was just running some basic speed tests with dd. |
| [11:34:16] |
<Guest28947> |
It would still be cool to see what could be crammed in 8MB with the kernel. :D |
| [11:36:25] |
<dTal> |
Of course, real life might be different. For one, with the SD we're reading and writing at the same time. |
| [11:38:11] |
<dTal> |
Yeah, if you could fit a few good terminal apps in there it would be practical to run it without the SD entirely. |
| [11:38:37] |
<Guest28947> |
Even just BASH and WiFi junk would be OK... |
| [11:38:58] |
<Guest28947> |
Prolly screen and nano too... |
| [11:39:06] |
<dTal> |
s/nano/vi |
| [11:39:26] |
<Guest28947> |
Yeah, can't forget about those vim nuts. Maybe we should cater to emacs users too. :D |
| [11:39:45] |
<dTal> |
emacs won't fit on an SD, let alone the flash :p |
| [11:40:10] |
<dTal> |
*rom |
| [11:40:30] |
<aliosa27> |
in 6 meg of that flash, squashfs-lzma-ed i was able to get bash,a basic x server, fluxbox,nano and some misc apps |
| [11:40:47] |
<dTal> |
May as well put Dreamweaver and Visual Studio in there too |
| [11:40:59] |
<aliosa27> |
and windows 7 |
| [11:41:06] |
<aliosa27> |
just for the heck of it |
| [11:41:08] |
<dTal> |
aliosa27: neat, how much of that was X? |
| [11:41:18] |
<aliosa27> |
most of it |
| [11:41:19] |
<aliosa27> |
lol |
| [11:41:24] |
<dTal> |
and what was performance like? |
| [11:41:30] |
<aliosa27> |
\with direct fb, it would be a differnt story |
| [11:41:59] |
<dTal> |
yeah, with directfb you could fit something real nice in there I bet |
| [11:42:05] |
<Guest28947> |
No X, please. :D This device is meant for the framebuffer junk at most. :P |
| [11:42:30] |
<dTal> |
Guest28947: You'd be surprised how many people insist on X. |
| [11:42:42] |
<Guest28947> |
Yeah, I've been lurking the logs. |
| [11:43:35] |
<Guest28947> |
Stuff like Firefox. Really? Firefox? Gecko has been aweful with RAM imho. |
| [11:44:02] |
<Guest28947> |
dTal, was it you trying to get stuff ported to dfb? |
| [11:45:53] |
<dTal> |
Yes. |
| [11:46:19] |
<dTal> |
Well, no. Actually I was trying to get stuff to run under dfb without porting. |
| [11:46:20] |
<Guest28947> |
Ah. Nice. |
| [11:46:36] |
<Guest28947> |
Hm. |
| [11:47:04] |
<dTal> |
Apparently it's impossible. Don't know why it should be. |
| [11:47:27] |
<dTal> |
Some architectural limitation with GTK+. |
| [11:47:39] |
<Guest28947> |
Well, it seems to be minimal, and stuff's prolly expecting X server functionality or something... |
| [11:47:58] |
<Guest28947> |
^^^^^ Talking about dfb |
| [11:48:34] |
<Guest28947> |
Maybe someone should change GTK+, lol |
| [11:49:15] |
<dTal> |
No, basically the way I was imagining GTK to work was App -> GTK -> GTK backend -> graphics subsystem |
| [11:49:47] |
<dTal> |
in fact its App -> GTKwithbackend -> graphics |
| [11:49:51] |
<Guest28947> |
I read somewhere that X goes through like 8 subsystems. Is crazy. |
| [11:50:15] |
<dTal> |
SO you have to recompile your app against the GTK with the backend you want. |
| [11:50:25] |
<Guest28947> |
Is GTK accessed like a library or a program? |
| [11:50:38] |
<dTal> |
Which seems kind of dumb. I wonder if QT is like that? |
| [11:50:45] |
<Guest28947> |
Who knows. |
| [11:50:48] |
<dTal> |
Library. |
| [11:51:04] |
<dTal> |
There's no "GTK" process. |
| [11:52:24] |
<Guest28947> |
Hm. That makes it more difficult. It's not like you could just make a shadow process called GTK and intercept calls... |
| [11:53:30] |
<Guest28947> |
Maybe making a cut down dfb version of GTK would work. Maybe then you'd just have to swap out the lib if the application using it wasn't statically compiled... |
| [11:54:29] |
<dTal> |
Aw jeez, practically every result for QT talks about "phonon". What's a graphical toolkit got to do with multimedia streams? This is *UNIX* people. MODULAR. HELOOO |
| [11:55:00] |
<Guest28947> |
Speaking of recompilation and dfb, --dfb:layer-rotate=90 deosn't work on the Debian Armel links2 package. I read in the logs or somewhere that newer versions of directfb had support for it, is it just a simple recompile away? |
| [11:57:28] |
<dTal> |
Urk. |
| [11:57:58] |
<dTal> |
It's not links2, it's the version of DFB. |
| [11:58:18] |
<dTal> |
There's a newer one in experimental. |
| [11:59:00] |
<dTal> |
But you will have to recompile every dfb app you want rotating against it, and I'm not even sure if it conflicts with the older package. |
| [11:59:56] |
<dTal> |
And unfortunately, recompiling isn't "simple". |
| [12:01:45] |
<dTal> |
You either compile on a real desktop, which means hell trying to synchronise the libtary versions, or you compile on the zipit, which means getting build-essential etc and a lot of time and wear on your SD. |
| [12:02:30] |
<dTal> |
Also note: mixing emdebian, debian, and experimental means lots of messing with apt-pinning and fighting apt and aptitude as they fight each other. |
| [12:03:12] |
<dTal> |
Least painful solution is probably distcc. |
| [12:20:19] |
<Guest28947> |
Well, I already build stuff on my Zipit. :D |
| [12:23:43] |
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| [12:32:59] |
<Guest28947> |
Other than the apt-death, it doesn't seem too bad since the only fb application I use is links... |
| [12:34:03] |
<Guest28947> |
distcc still requires cross-compilers as well... |
| [12:37:53] |
<Guest28947> |
Maybe I should just get more Zipits to run it on. :D |
| [12:42:37] |
<Guest28947> |
Compiling the few C/C++ programs I've been working with recently wasn't too much of a bother... |
| [12:43:24] |
<dTal> |
It varies a lot. |
| [12:44:10] |
<dTal> |
Remember, if each source file is small enough to compile in ram, it goes quickly. But if it goes into swap, you're looking at days. |
| [12:46:18] |
<Adnyxo> |
is jagsph still working on his userland? |
| [12:46:26] |
<Adnyxo> |
he hasnt been in here in a while |
| [12:54:15] |
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<Guest29345> |
Yeah, considering I don't have swap at all, it'd prolly explode. |
| [13:19:42] |
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<rkdavis> |
ok we are cut off from the city -- a man hole exploded and the police won't let anyone passed |
| [13:25:31] |
<zipithelp> |
Hiya |
| [13:26:42] |
<zipithelp> |
So uh, I'm trying to play ,avis on my zipit. Runs great, however the video is very slow and it falls out of sync with the audio |
| [13:29:30] |
<Guest29345> |
rkdavis, just bring your Zipit with a prototype USB host dongle and walk up to them saying you're some sort of disaster consultant/analyst. :D |
| [13:30:21] |
<rkdavis> |
Guest29345: heh |
| [13:30:21] |
<Guest29345> |
They'll be like "oh, with those hackar terminalz and that mess o' wires, he must be th real deal!" and you'll be able to continue on through. |
| [13:30:22] |
<Mcavity> |
zip you will need to transcode those files down |
| [13:30:30] |
<rkdavis> |
or show them my warrant card |
| [13:31:06] |
<Guest29345> |
lol |
| [13:31:55] |
<zipithelp> |
OK Mcavity, how would I go about doing that? |
| [13:32:10] |
<Mcavity> |
try somethink like handbreak |
| [13:32:52] |
<zipithelp> |
And that will reduce the size of the .avi? |
| [13:33:03] |
<Mcavity> |
or mediacell video converter |
| [13:33:27] |
<zipithelp> |
Wait, I want to convert the videos? |
| [13:33:32] |
<zipithelp> |
I'm an idito |
| [13:33:46] |
<Mcavity> |
yes dont use h264 codec as its a bit heavy for the zipit cpu.. |
| [13:34:12] |
<Mcavity> |
yes you want to convert the video down to 320x240 |
| [13:34:59] |
<zipithelp> |
Hold on h264 codec? |
| [13:35:58] |
<Mcavity> |
a lot of filese these days are encoded using the h264 codec.. but that requires a lot of cpu to decode.. so try xvid mpeg4 or something along those lines. |
| [13:36:29] |
<Mcavity> |
handbreak or mediacell video converter will help automate the transcodeing for you. |
| [13:43:03] |
<Guest29345> |
xvid FTW |
| [13:43:19] |
<Mcavity> |
yup. ok sleep time for me =0 |
| [13:52:36] |
<Guest29345> |
Sleep is overrated. |
| [13:57:59] |
<Adnyxo> |
not |
| [14:02:05] |
<zipithelp> |
what framerate should I set it to |
| [14:02:29] |
<Adnyxo> |
probably 29.7 |
| [14:03:05] |
<zipithelp> |
OK |
| [14:03:08] |
<zipithelp> |
quality;/ |
| [14:03:11] |
<zipithelp> |
what %age> |
| [14:03:15] |
<zipithelp> |
erm |
| [14:03:22] |
<zipithelp> |
what percentage should I set the quality to. |
| [14:04:24] |
<Adnyxo> |
idk |
| [14:06:22] |
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| [14:06:25] |
<zipithelplinux> |
Hiyas |
| [14:06:33] |
<zipithelplinux> |
Whate framerate again? Sorry |
| [14:06:35] |
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<Adnyxo> |
29.7 is what i use for my other 320x240 device |
| [14:10:27] |
<Adnyxo> |
is there a way to lock the alt key in jags image? it would be good for using the calculator |
| [14:10:38] |
<muriani> |
29.97 is the usual one |
| [14:11:00] |
<muriani> |
24fps, and then 29.97 is usually what it is for TV |
| [14:11:25] |
<muriani> |
60hz interlaced, essentially |
| [14:18:07] |
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| [14:22:40] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
Got my W00T external 5v recharge battery today, about the size of a Zippo. Will report back later this weekend once I get an adapter built to the ZipIt's power input. |
| [14:23:47] |
<zipithelplinux> |
alright I transcoded it to mpeg4 but now it won't play sound |
| [14:25:12] |
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| [14:25:16] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
It sounds like what we need is a distributed processing network for compiling, like Folding at Home but with ZipIts. |
| [14:26:42] |
<Guest29345> |
lol, yeah. |
| [14:27:16] |
<Guest29345> |
I heard the Debian folks have a bunch of ARM boards in clusters cross-compiling junk. |
| [14:36:37] |
<dTal> |
FiftyOneFifty: I've actually got a neat notion along those lines. |
| [14:39:59] |
<zipithelplinux> |
it didn't run perfec |
| [14:40:04] |
<zipithelplinux> |
not perfect |
| [14:40:05] |
<zipithelplinux> |
I mean |
| [14:40:15] |
<zipithelplinux> |
video still lagged |
| [14:40:20] |
<zipithelplinux> |
should I reduce framerate? |
| [14:40:26] |
<zipithelplinux> |
Just to sync it up with audio? |
| [14:47:27] |
<Adnyxo> |
hey fiftyone, i ve got mine too |
| [14:47:36] |
<Adnyxo> |
are you gonna disassemble it or just make an adapter |
| [14:52:27] |
<Adnyxo> |
rkdavis, can you get a bulk rate for zipits if i buy like 5? |
| [14:56:30] |
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| [15:02:45] |
<dTal> |
If there's a better bulk rate for 10 I'll split it |
| [15:10:55] |
<Adnyxo> |
thats good |
| [15:12:23] |
<Adnyxo> |
heh i want to have a bunch of zipits. One as a chumby by my bed, one for quick irc (hopefully with a usb keyboard) and etc. and im planning on losing a couple in my projects |
| [15:13:46] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
Adnyxo: Since output is to full size USB port, I'll probably splice the extra Radio Shack connect I got into a USB cable, the retractable cable would be too bulky to carry in my pocket. I'll probably still open it up to read the specs off the battery. Noticed the other day that battery on my Dell Axim is also 3.7v, but only 1100mAh. Only slightly thicker than ZipIt bat and two would fit in case. |
| [15:14:46] |
<Adnyxo> |
i tried to go to radio shack and get a power cable for the zipit, they said it would cost $50 |
| [15:14:59] |
<Adnyxo> |
what kind of tip is the connector? |
| [15:15:32] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
Radio Shack part numbers are posted in the WiKi |
| [15:16:04] |
<Guest29345> |
Adnyxo: Yeah, that's why I said "Eff that." and soldered a 9v battery clip to my Zipit. (I put 9v battery clips on all my 5v devices ans supplies to be a cheap scumbag) |
| [15:16:45] |
<Adnyxo> |
9v battery clip? |
| [15:17:21] |
<Guest29345> |
Like this: http://media.digikey.com/photos/BUD%20Industries%20Photos/HH-3449.jpg |
| [15:17:44] |
<Guest29345> |
I desoldered the old jack (which was starting to get flakey) and soldered in one of these. |
| [15:18:25] |
<Adnyxo> |
took out the thing you plug the charger in and replace it with that? |
| [15:18:55] |
<Guest29345> |
Result: http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1280/daveszipitpower.jpg |
| [15:18:58] |
<Guest29345> |
Yeah. |
| [15:19:18] |
<Guest29345> |
I might hot glue it to the body of the Zipit once I USB host mod it. |
| [15:19:30] |
<Guest29345> |
So that it doesn't dangle anymore |
| [15:20:36] |
<Adnyxo> |
sounds good |
| [15:20:50] |
<Adnyxo> |
heh i like your ubuntu sticker |
| [15:20:52] |
<Guest29345> |
I guess I could use the freed space to put a whole USB host plug in there... |
| [15:20:55] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
How did you do the Ubuntu cover logo, doesn't look like a sticker. |
| [15:20:55] |
<Guest29345> |
lol |
| [15:21:01] |
<Guest29345> |
It is. |
| [15:21:14] |
<Guest29345> |
A buddy of mine with a Zipit found out that you can pop off the black part. |
| [15:21:19] |
<Adnyxo> |
can you take off the zipit logo |
| [15:21:21] |
<Adnyxo> |
ah yea |
| [15:21:24] |
<Adnyxo> |
thought so |
| [15:21:40] |
<Adnyxo> |
the zipit face like a sticker as well? |
| [15:22:07] |
<Guest29345> |
Yeah, it's like a piece of rubber with adhesive. |
| [15:22:18] |
<Guest29345> |
Well the logo is... |
| [15:22:40] |
<Adnyxo> |
okay |
| [15:23:07] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
Your right, it pops right off. |
| [15:23:18] |
<Guest29345> |
There's actually a dip where the sticker is since obviously it's not as thick as the original badge. |
| [15:23:22] |
<Guest29345> |
Yup. |
| [15:23:55] |
* |
FiftyOneFifty accepts no responsibility fro broken black lid cover thingies |
| [15:24:17] |
<Guest29345> |
I just used some free System76 Ubuntu sticker I had laying around and slapped it in there. The friend of mine I mentioned before has a Pentium sticker in his. :P |
| [15:24:40] |
* |
Guest29345 also accepts no responsibility for anyone who may mimic his stupidity. |
| [15:25:07] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
OK, there's the LCD connector and the screws that hold the LCD in |
| [15:25:41] |
<Guest29345> |
?? |
| [15:25:47] |
<Guest29345> |
You popped the whole thing open? |
| [15:26:24] |
<Guest29345> |
I was only talking about the black "suede"/rubber/soft touch part on the outside. It's a seperate piece. |
| [15:26:52] |
<Adnyxo> |
heh |
| [15:26:56] |
<Adnyxo> |
lol |
| [15:27:15] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
Took the black plate off the top of the lid with a jewelers screwdriver, pops off. Didn't remove lCD, now I just can see how it's assembled. |
| [15:27:22] |
* |
Guest29345 definitely takes no responsibility for nuked Zipit LCD wire things. |
| [15:27:43] |
<needhelp2> |
Guest29345: Could you post a video of how you put a battery connector in and if you get it to work then about getting USB port too ? I dont know much about hardware and have not even figured out how to open the zipit base. |
| [15:27:51] |
<Guest29345> |
Oh, really? I don't remember what it looks like in there. :D |
| [15:28:00] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
I'll leave LCD upgrades to Adnyxo |
| [15:28:10] |
<Guest29345> |
lol |
| [15:28:16] |
<Guest29345> |
Those wire things scare me. |
| [15:28:22] |
<Adnyxo> |
i gave up on that after a talk with foxx |
| [15:28:56] |
<Adnyxo> |
but im still waiting for the supplies for the case mod |
| [15:28:58] |
<Guest29345> |
needhelp2: I don't know how the USB host mod works exactly. And, a new kernel will be needed. GPSFan is working on it as a private beta with rkdavis. |
| [15:29:09] |
<Adnyxo> |
i want one!! |
| [15:29:22] |
<Adnyxo> |
it will hopefully fit right in with my case mod |
| [15:30:06] |
<Guest29345> |
It's apparently just removing a pull-up resistor on the USB gadget line going out to the EXT port and then there's just kernel magic. (and of course wiring to the EXT connector) |
| [15:30:37] |
<needhelp2> |
Guest29345: Do you have few notes on putting the 9V battery connector for somebody new to it ? |
| [15:30:53] |
<Guest29345> |
The one in the Zipit is really tiny surface mount death. I think it's like 0.1mm pitch or something. |
| [15:31:22] |
<Guest29345> |
Uh... Just desolder the old one and guess which way to solder the adapter in. Also, don't use 9v batteries with it. |
| [15:31:24] |
<Guest29345> |
:D |
| [15:31:58] |
<Guest29345> |
But 4xAA batteries do work. |
| [15:32:02] |
<Guest29345> |
Is nice. |
| [15:32:19] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
Where was the kernel boot logo taken from, is that a badger for Minix? |
| [15:32:33] |
<Guest29345> |
I always thought it was some Dingoo thing... |
| [15:32:46] |
<Gnuet> |
it's a platypus? |
| [15:34:40] |
<needhelp2> |
not a platypus for sure |
| [15:34:52] |
<Guest29345> |
Maybe a badger? |
| [15:35:08] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
I thought if I found that image I could make a sticker and replace the ZipIt logo |
| [15:35:27] |
<needhelp2> |
can it be changed to a penguin ? |
| [15:35:46] |
<Guest29345> |
Use tape? If you tape on the edges where the cover will overlap, it may not be noticeable. |
| [15:36:35] |
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| [15:36:36] |
<Guest29345> |
As said before, I used System76's stickers. They took like 3 weeks to arrive though. http://www.system76.com/article_info.php?articles_id=9 |
| [15:36:38] |
<aphixe> |
hello guys |
| [15:36:52] |
<Guest29345> |
Hola |
| [15:37:00] |
<needhelp2> |
I meant changing the logo which is flashed at startup...is that possible ? |
| [15:37:02] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
Tux would be a good alternative, no problem finding him. I was just going to print it and glue it back to the bottom of the clear plastic square |
| [15:37:54] |
<Gnuet> |
gonna print me a small wildebeest. |
| [15:38:01] |
<Gnuet> |
and some glue <3 |
| [15:38:02] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
Maybe a tny LCD as an external monitor :) |
| [15:38:13] |
<Guest29345> |
lol |
| [15:38:24] |
<Gnuet> |
but i still wanna know whay kinda animal it is. |
| [15:38:28] |
<Guest29345> |
I do have a Nokia color LCD... |
| [15:38:46] |
<Guest29345> |
And the Zipit has an I2C bus... |
| [15:38:58] |
<aphixe> |
I got my zipit all done using the nexusroot's 1gb image.. 2 problems i have is.. one can i use gparted to say.. add back the 1gb i lost.. cuz i have a 2gb card.. second issue is.. seting password for ftp |
| [15:39:47] |
<aphixe> |
i looked in the files.. ftpusers and ftpchown. but none say.. like password or such |
| [15:39:48] |
<Guest29345> |
aphixe: Maybe just sudo cp all the files over to your PC and reformat the card and copy them back in the same way... |
| [15:40:06] |
<Guest29345> |
That's what I've been doing when my card corrupts. |
| [15:40:22] |
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| [15:40:26] |
<aphixe> |
my card isnt corrupt.. but isnt there like a swap file and such |
| [15:40:33] |
<aphixe> |
i mean partition |
| [15:40:42] |
<Guest29345> |
You can make one with gparted. |
| [15:41:08] |
<needhelp2> |
I did recover the space by popping my SD card on a machine with SD adapter and Linux..then I recovered the 1gb space using gparted |
| [15:41:10] |
* |
dTal wants the Skaianet logo |
| [15:41:22] |
<aphixe> |
i need to reboot into wubi.. ubuntu.. unless theres a way i can get SDcards to read in virtualbox or vmware player |
| [15:41:26] |
<Guest29346> |
DTal: I like it. |
| [15:41:34] |
<Guest29345> |
Switching machines... |
| [15:41:39] |
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| [15:41:45] |
<Guest29346> |
Hola |
| [15:41:57] |
<Gnuet> |
amagad. |
| [15:42:17] |
<aphixe> |
so where is the info for ftpd's password stored.. i googled, cant seem to find the info |
| [15:43:11] |
<Guest29346> |
I remember using gftpd and it's usernames and passwords were based on the unix users... |
| [15:43:51] |
<Gnuet> |
it sorta looks like a tazmanian devil when you imagine the beek away. |
| [15:44:53] |
<Guest29346> |
Lol |
| [15:46:29] |
<Gnuet> |
http://blog.dreamhost.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/tasmanian-devil.jpg |
| [15:46:34] |
<Gnuet> |
naaaw they so cute ^^ |
| [15:47:29] |
<Guest29346> |
Indeed, adorable |
| [15:48:03] |
<aphixe> |
ok.. i had enough with windows.. switching to linux.. hahah! |
| [15:48:04] |
<Limp_Trizkit> |
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Tarsier-GG.jpg |
| [15:48:08] |
<Limp_Trizkit> |
^^ now THAT is adorable |
| [15:48:10] |
<Limp_Trizkit> |
:P |
| [15:48:12] |
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| [15:48:17] |
<Gnuet> |
Limp_Trizkit: nooooo ^^ |
| [15:48:36] |
<Limp_Trizkit> |
(bonus points if you recognize what that animal is featured on the cover of) |
| [15:48:55] |
<Gnuet> |
natgeo? |
| [15:49:06] |
<Limp_Trizkit> |
no |
| [15:49:44] |
<Limp_Trizkit> |
http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596100292 |
| [15:49:54] |
<Gnuet> |
aaah |
| [15:50:02] |
<Gnuet> |
that's where i've seen it. |
| [15:50:18] |
<Limp_Trizkit> |
that book cover was my avatar on twitter/fb for a while |
| [15:50:18] |
<Limp_Trizkit> |
lol |
| [15:51:37] |
<Adnyxo> |
whats your twitter account? |
| [15:52:26] |
<Limp_Trizkit> |
http://twitter.com/nicktabick |
| [15:52:47] |
<Adnyxo> |
cool, following |
| [15:53:17] |
* |
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| [15:56:35] |
<dTal> |
So, can you access the flash on a reflashed zipit as a filesystem? If you could would there be anything in it? |
| [15:59:14] |
<Adnyxo> |
hey fiftyone, how did you get the case around the screen open? |
| [16:00:52] |
<Foxx> |
Adnyxo |
| [16:00:59] |
<Foxx> |
they are pop tabs around it |
| [16:01:26] |
<Foxx> |
pop your fingernail into the seem and pop it open |
| [16:01:35] |
<Foxx> |
DO NOT USE A METAL TOOL! |
| [16:01:39] |
<Foxx> |
you will break the tabs |
| [16:02:49] |
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| [16:03:14] |
<dTal> |
Hm, seems QT uses a 'plugin' system for the backends, so you don't have to recompile anything. That's more like it. |
| [16:03:22] |
<Adnyxo> |
okay thanks |
| [16:03:49] |
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<aphixe2000> |
i am back. now in linux.. i tried cp command in linux to copy my sd-card onto hard-drive.. doing a sudo cp *.* directory. but no luck |
| [16:05:18] |
<aphixe2000> |
I am trying to take this 2gb.. with the 1gb rootNexus and backup and resize the card |
| [16:07:21] |
<Adnyxo> |
so i sold my old sansa view for $60 |
| [16:09:02] |
<aphixe2000> |
looks like i got the command |
| [16:20:25] |
<Guest29346> |
You may have to cp * -r (not*.*) |
| [16:22:17] |
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<aphixe> |
hello guys |
| [16:49:39] |
<Adnyxo> |
hey |
| [16:53:36] |
<aphixe> |
trying to find where ftp user passwords are stored.. or the default info.. i tried.. username zipitv2 pass:debian.. no luck |
| [16:55:26] |
<Adnyxo> |
user:zipitz2 root:debian |
| [16:56:11] |
<aphixe> |
tells me incorrect info.. |
| [16:58:38] |
<Adnyxo> |
rkdavis, its tar -xfjv for the rootnexus image? i can never remember this |
| [16:59:26] |
<muriani> |
is it gzip or bz2? |
| [16:59:34] |
<Adnyxo> |
.tar.bz2 |
| [16:59:39] |
<aphixe> |
gunzip works |
| [16:59:42] |
<muriani> |
xjvf is fine then |
| [16:59:51] |
<aphixe> |
its just a gz file |
| [17:02:33] |
<aphixe> |
ok.. i tryed putty for telnet and tryed same info for password and username and no luck |
| [17:03:48] |
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<aphixe> |
i see on the rootnexus page.. the hot keys.. it says Ctrl+l for close.. but where is the ctrl key on a zipit.. hah |
| [17:10:31] |
<dTal> |
aphixe: ... |
| [17:10:49] |
<aphixe> |
thx |
| [17:11:43] |
<dTal> |
aphixe: no, I was just confused |
| [17:11:50] |
<dTal> |
:-p |
| [17:11:53] |
<aphixe> |
it works tho |
| [17:12:04] |
<dTal> |
yeah, I'm joshing |
| [17:12:05] |
<aphixe> |
the ... key is ctrl |
| [17:12:10] |
<dTal> |
s'all good |
| [17:15:25] |
<aphixe> |
trying new passwd.. rebooting and hope i can ftp and telnet |
| [17:19:26] |
<aphixe> |
didnt work.. but.. |
| [17:20:00] |
<aphixe> |
i did think perhaps the password is bound to another account name? |
| [17:36:02] |
<aphixe> |
anyone try any special languages on zipit 2? i wanna see if i can get basic japanese charactors working.. with a dictionary.. problem is i dont know all the packages names in apt-get |
| [17:50:29] |
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<dTal> |
Okay, project. Create swap file, enable swap file, disable swap partition, delete swap partition, grow ext3 to fill SD |
| [18:49:54] |
<dTal> |
...live on the Zipit. |
| [18:50:08] |
<dTal> |
I wonder if it has the neccesary kernel extensions. |
| [19:04:39] |
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<dTal> |
Yeah, with a swap file and a bit of kernel tweaking the performance is way better. |
| [19:31:25] |
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<aphixe> |
anyone have issues with charging the sucker |
| [19:32:39] |
<dTal> |
I am actually using apt, elinks, and irssi at the same time. |
| [19:32:49] |
<dTal> |
This is amazing. |
| [19:33:45] |
<dTal> |
I think a little more tweaking might improve stability as well. |
| [19:35:17] |
<aphixe> |
i have issues trying to download gcc thru apt-get |
| [19:38:20] |
<aphixe> |
maybe i'm having issues, cuz i'm a noob.. |
| [19:38:32] |
<dTal> |
What issues? |
| [19:39:44] |
<aphixe> |
Installing gcc, ftpd + telnet.. i have set my passwd.. i am using root nexus's image.. and i would like to know how to change my wallpaper |
| [19:41:00] |
<aphixe> |
i wanna see if its possible to build a japanese dictionary.. i do see it has the basic characters.. not the chinese ones.. but the basic to read the language.. that small children read. |
| [19:41:59] |
<aphixe> |
i just got this zipit. the other day.. so i am still learning.. |
| [19:44:37] |
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| [19:46:10] |
<dTal> |
Interesting - the tuning I did has sped up response, but slowed down apt a whole bunch |
| [19:47:04] |
<aphixe> |
wow intresting |
| [19:47:47] |
<aphixe> |
you know any programming languages.. sadly i took a perl class. but didnt understand much of it.. or u just tweaking via.. conf files |
| [19:48:51] |
<aphixe> |
i took the easy route and then took a vb.net class. and i am now doing C# just started.. so it feels much like vb. so far |
| [19:55:10] |
<dTal> |
Lots of interesting stuff in /proc/sys/vm/ |
| [19:57:45] |
<aphixe> |
really.. such as |
| [19:58:03] |
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| [19:59:33] |
<dTal> |
laptop-mode: mashes disk io operations together to keep disks spun down longer - turned on, it would have the side effect of avoiding lots of little writes to flash, in favor of larger ones less often. |
| [20:00:02] |
<dTal> |
swappiness: tendency of the kernel to swap data |
| [20:02:42] |
<dTal> |
overcommit_memory: can be tweaked for better performance |
| [20:04:31] |
<dTal> |
various tweakable things to do with flushing dirty memory too |
| [20:05:17] |
<dTal> |
I don't get it... my sd light is now permanantly on with apt running super-slow, yet all my apps are responsive. |
| [20:08:20] |
<aphixe> |
isnt root nexus's image.. using fluxbox.. yet i tried this simple guide on changing the background and said command unknown |
| [20:09:26] |
<dTal> |
I dunno about the background, I don't use X. You might try locating the image it uses and substituting your own? (properly formatteed of course) |
| [20:14:20] |
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| [20:20:35] |
<aphixe> |
wouldnt know where the image is stored.. hah |
| [20:20:40] |
<aphixe> |
i can guess tho |
| [20:21:47] |
<aphixe> |
wonder if i can get japanese fonts for console.. i heard of kterm or something.. and mined unicode text editor |
| [20:22:36] |
<aphixe> |
u compiled anything on ur zipit? |
| [20:25:57] |
<dTal> |
yep |
| [20:26:18] |
<dTal> |
the novelty wears off after a few days |
| [20:26:44] |
<dTal> |
days of compiling, that is |
| [20:27:03] |
<aphixe> |
did you use apt-get install gcc.. i mean compile apps on the zipit itself |
| [20:28:55] |
<dTal> |
Yeah, I installed build-essential and a few others... messed around with pinning and most of my system is pure debian tho - ymmv |
| [20:29:48] |
<aphixe> |
is there a way to press tab on zipit.. i hate to type lots of text sometimes |
| [20:32:28] |
<dTal> |
the big z key |
| [20:35:02] |
<aphixe> |
thanks man, that helped save alot of time |
| [20:37:11] |
<aphixe> |
i tryed apt-get install build-essentials and get issues.. saying some packages could not be installed. this may mean that you have requested an impossible situtation or using unstable disto |
| [20:37:42] |
<aphixe> |
the following info could resolve the issue.. unmet depends |
| [20:38:06] |
<dTal> |
That's because you've got both debian and emdebian repositories. |
| [20:38:39] |
<aphixe> |
ok.. so which repositorie should i use |
| [20:38:47] |
<aphixe> |
or how can this be fixed. |
| [20:39:08] |
<dTal> |
well, it's a tricky issue |
| [20:39:50] |
<dTal> |
there are multiple ways of resolving it, with varying levels of robustness |
| [20:40:43] |
<dTal> |
as I said, what I've done is basically opt for full debian by messing with apt-pinning |
| [20:41:22] |
<dTal> |
I tuned the exact pin priorities as I went along, so I don't know what the "best" configuration is |
| [20:42:16] |
<dTal> |
essentially, what you need to know is apt considers emdebian packages to be "newer" than regular debian, so it will prefer them |
| [20:43:05] |
<aphixe> |
ok.. well i'm not picky.. i just would like to build sources |
| [20:43:09] |
<dTal> |
but this causes conflicts because the things you're installing depend on other things in debian that are also in emdebian, so it considers it a "downgrade" |
| [20:43:34] |
<dTal> |
which it won't do by default |
| [20:44:07] |
<dTal> |
also I switched between apt-get and aptitude a lot, in a way you're not supposed to |
| [20:44:37] |
<dTal> |
how important is using X to you? |
| [20:46:21] |
<dTal> |
My immediate impulse in your situation would be to simply migrate your system to full debian, but that will likely break stuff, and the stuff it will likely break is the custom stuff, which is nearly all in X |
| [20:46:50] |
<aphixe> |
well i would like some programs that use graphics, such as web and some form of chating.. irc/aim/google talk |
| [20:46:50] |
<dTal> |
my X is broken, for instance |
| [20:47:33] |
<aphixe> |
is it cuz the graphics and mouse stuff is all custom hacks |
| [20:48:35] |
<dTal> |
I don't know - all I know is I prioritised having a proper debian system over having a working X, and I got my wish |
| [20:48:38] |
<aphixe> |
so theres no way to have the best of both worlds i guess |
| [20:48:53] |
<dTal> |
there is, it's just a lot of work |
| [20:49:20] |
<dTal> |
despite what they're saying, I do not think the zipit is quite "general public ready" yet |
| [20:49:27] |
<aphixe> |
and no one is working on it.. i would like to learn.. thats the main reason i got a zipit.. to learn |
| [20:49:48] |
<dTal> |
people are working on it |
| [20:49:57] |
<dTal> |
but as a portable hack platform, it's ideal |
| [20:50:31] |
<dTal> |
you can always browse with elinks and chat with centerim |
| [20:50:44] |
<dTal> |
I'm on the zipit right now |
| [20:51:03] |
<aphixe> |
but then i have issues if i want some graphics |
| [20:51:44] |
<dTal> |
well, this is just my system |
| [20:52:04] |
<dTal> |
it may be possible to install a complete build chain without breaking X |
| [20:52:17] |
<dTal> |
but I didn't :-p |
| [20:52:47] |
<aphixe> |
its possible for me to do it.. but i have not much xp. in linux |
| [20:53:06] |
<dTal> |
then there's directfb, but that's a whole other kettle of fish |
| [20:53:28] |
<dTal> |
remembeer you can always wipe the SD and start over |
| [20:53:36] |
<aphixe> |
ya true |
| [20:53:57] |
<dTal> |
I haven't because I don't care about X |
| [20:54:01] |
<dTal> |
I'm very happy |
| [20:54:32] |
<dTal> |
I've learned bundles from this little gadget |
| [20:55:08] |
<aphixe> |
some how my wubi install got all messed up. so only true linux so i can hack away the sdcard is live cd.. i could always vmware but dont know if it would work |
| [20:59:32] |
<dTal> |
Again, it's possible to write an image to the SD from windows at least |
| [21:00:09] |
<dTal> |
Though again, I've not done it, and don't trust it :) |
| [21:00:57] |
<aphixe> |
me either.. but i dont have drivers in windows 7 for reading linux |
| [21:18:03] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
OK, my new cover logo is between "Tux in the Hood" http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://danlynch.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/tux_pimp.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.linuxplanet.org/blogs/%3Fcat%3D5&usg=___Ywt4JSY36R1TrKubaPXCjpfsyg=&h=375&w=300&sz=20&hl=en&start=33&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=qP_5Z3jmEKo41M:&tbnh=122&tbnw=98&prev=/images%3Fq%3Devil%2Btux%26start%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official% |
| [21:18:05] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1 and "Homer Tux" http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UqUwVPikChs/SC7iQUg_edI/AAAAAAAADuY/g6j7MFCsDZ4/s1600-h/homertux_full.png |
| [21:21:42] |
<aphixe> |
homer tux |
| [21:23:24] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
I like it too, but "Tux in the Hood" was on Dan Lynch's blog, and I am a faithul "Outlaw" |
| [21:24:01] |
<aphixe> |
u know how to set the background image cuz i cant figure it out yet |
| [21:25:51] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
At least for rootnexus, its been mentioned in the IRC in the last couple weeks, scroll back through the logs http://linux.zipitwireless.com/irclogs/2010 |
| [21:26:12] |
<aphixe> |
ya i have rootnexus ver |
| [21:26:17] |
<aphixe> |
so let me look |
| [21:31:02] |
<dTal> |
Yo, anybody know how to mount the built-in flash? Can it be modified in-place? |
| [21:47:09] |
<dTal> |
Okay, waitaminute. |
| [21:47:33] |
<dTal> |
What does /sys/class/graphics/fbcon/rotate do? |
| [21:48:09] |
<dTal> |
And if it does what I think it does, why is dfb's rotation ability or lack thereof relevant? |
| [21:49:11] |
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<dTal> |
Bork your z2 is one easy command |
| [22:00:39] |
<Adnyxo> |
what command? |
| [22:02:35] |
<dTal> |
echo 2 > /sys/class/graphics/fbcon/rotate |
| [22:19:35] |
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<dTal> |
What does /sys/class/graphics/fb0/rotate do? I'm scared to try. |
| [22:32:41] |
<aphixe> |
ok i searched a while for how to set the background.. looked at the logs.. perhaps.. my queries were bad.. i tried searching the words wallpaper |
| [22:42:49] |
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<FiftyOneFifty> |
try background, I thought it had been discussed recently |
| [22:53:18] |
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<FiftyOneFifty> |
the files at least are in /home/user/Wallpapaer |
| [23:01:26] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
Wallpaper settings - home/user/.config/rox.sourceforge.net/ROX-Filer/pb_Desktop |
| [23:01:53] |
<FiftyOneFifty> |
Make sure "show hidden files" is on |
| [23:40:54] |
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