IRC Logs

24. 02 2010

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[04:20:17] <s-hell> hi everybody
[04:20:37] <s-hell> is there anywhere a list with all keycodes from the zipit2?
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[05:55:14] <dTal> neat workaround for the qo$ syndrome
[05:55:47] <dTal> type cat in an empty termial
[05:55:55] <dTal> before closing the lid
[05:56:24] <dTal> Actually, I wonder if stdin could be redirected via the lidswitch script?
[05:57:22] <Reddog^> woooot offfff
[06:00:25] <dTal> ?
[06:03:29] <Reddog^> ....... http://woot.com
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[07:39:44] <dTal> Is alt-arrows an invalid key combo?
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[08:19:16] <buzzinh_zipit> hey all
[08:19:57] <buzzinh_zipit> just got my zipit online for the 1st time with root nexus image
[08:22:39] <rkdavis> morning all
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[08:23:22] <rkdavis> dTal: you mean the arrows in the dpad?
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[08:44:46] <Mcavity> morning
[08:45:10] <rkdavis> morning Mcavity
[08:45:53] <Mcavity> how goes the world?
[08:46:13] <rkdavis> got toothache and no creamer only milk for my coffee but okish
[08:46:42] <Mcavity> and i have no good food cuz im still on a diet
[08:47:14] <rkdavis> Mcavity: i saw a thing on tv yesterday that said diets don;t work
[08:47:34] <rkdavis> that they actually make it harder to lose weight, you should just have smaller portions :)
[08:48:19] <dTal> rkdavis: yes
[08:49:03] <dTal> turns out alt-left and right (and up and down) were bound to stuff, so no wonder it didn't work in irssi
[08:49:08] <rkdavis> dTal: i think alt-arrow is an ok combo
[08:49:22] <dTal> but I've unbound them and it still doesn't work.
[08:49:29] <rkdavis> it doesn;t generate a broken keycode
[08:49:44] <Mcavity> i do low carb.. that works for me.. i droped 60 pounds. im actualy a reasonable weight. i just want to drop a bit more.
[08:50:10] <rkdavis> dTal: give me a couple of minutes i need to get some more coffee and feed the cat then we'll sit down and get it sussed
[08:50:49] <dTal> fair nuff
[08:51:08] <dTal> not a big deal really, as esc works for meta too
[08:51:58] <dTal> although it's a bit of a pain because you have to release it every time, you can't just hold it down like you can with alt (on my desktop at least)
[08:53:08] <rkdavis> the one thing i have found problems with is using a key as a compose key, at least in stock
[08:53:32] <rkdavis> it works but it doesn't but it might be the font i am using doesn't have the accented chars
[08:54:42] <dTal> This font I'm using has hardly anything. Not too bothered though.
[08:56:06] <rkdavis> ok coffe check, cat fed check, kid woken up even though he has no class today and i'm a mean bugger check
[08:56:11] <rkdavis> ok let see
[08:56:28] <rkdavis> dTal: you still have no desktop with internet access i presume?
[08:57:02] <dTal> I could get to one if I needed to. Do I need to?
[08:58:38] <dTal> I think this might be a complicated issue, with irssi. It's behaved like this in FreeBSD, but that was because the FreeBSD shell intercepts alt.
[08:58:54] <dTal> I don't think anything's intercepting alt here.
[08:59:16] <rkdavis> nope just so you could see two images
[08:59:45] <rkdavis> one with the keycodes on it and my pdf with the bad combos marked
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[09:00:07] <dTal> I can get key combos with showkeys, so that's okay
[09:00:22] <dTal> they're all in the keymap anyway
[09:01:15] <rkdavis> ok
[09:01:22] <rkdavis> let me putty into my zipit
[09:06:58] <rkdavis> ok looks like the alt+arrows doesn't work but altgr+arrows does work
[09:07:44] <dTal> think I might have worked it out
[09:07:56] <rkdavis> nope they are rebindable with alt and altgr
[09:08:00] <dTal> alt isn't sending meta, which is actually what irssi expecting
[09:08:14] <dTal> let me try
[09:08:21] <rkdavis> keycode 102 = Alt
[09:08:21] <rkdavis> keycode 103 = Up
[09:08:21] <rkdavis> alt keycode 103 = bracketright
[09:08:28] <rkdavis> that was the small map i loaded
[09:08:37] <rkdavis> but the alt key also does it
[09:09:01] <rkdavis> dTal: yup you'll need to change the alt to be a meta
[09:09:19] <dTal> can't it be both?
[09:09:20] <rkdavis> i think you need to add the line at the top of the file Alt_isMeta iirc
[09:09:46] <dTal> what if I just add it as a binding?
[09:10:02] <dTal> keycode 56 = Alt
[09:10:05] <rkdavis> what keycode 56 = Meta ?
[09:10:08] <dTal> then keycode 56 = Meta
[09:10:11] <dTal> yeah
[09:10:24] <rkdavis> nope it would overwrite the Alt def
[09:10:25] <dTal> at the same time? would that work?
[09:10:29] <dTal> oh
[09:10:46] <rkdavis> let me check there is something about alt is meta on the inna'webs
[09:10:50] <rkdavis> i saw it a while back
[09:11:27] <dTal> it didnt like Alt_isMeta
[09:11:59] <rkdavis> alt_is_meta Whenever some combination is defined as an ASCII symbol, and there is a corresponding Alt keymap
[09:12:07] <rkdavis> yup because i didn't send it right
[09:12:27] <rkdavis> there are some other thijgs that seem to need to be added but this page was cut off let me find a better one
[09:13:32] <rkdavis> alt_is_meta Whenever some combination is defined as an ASCII symbol, and there is a corresponding Alt keymap, define by default the corresponding Alt combination as Meta_value.
[09:13:33] <dTal> actually I think I won't change it
[09:13:54] <rkdavis> yup it might screw up other things but that should be the way irssi likes it
[09:14:02] <dTal> where is that page?
[09:14:16] <rkdavis> it's just the keymap man page
[09:14:23] <dTal> I'm gonna bind alt left and alt right to be meta left and meta right
[09:14:35] <rkdavis> so google keymap man and it'll bring one up -- this one was ubuntu's copy
[09:14:42] <dTal> I can do that right?
[09:15:34] <rkdavis> hmmmmm not sure but i can't see why not
[09:15:51] <rkdavis> other than the /broken/ combos everything is rebindable
[09:17:48] <dTal> hmm it didn't like Meta_Left
[09:17:52] <dTal> maybe case
[09:18:34] <rkdavis> yup keymaps are weird, case seems to be whatever they happened to type or if th ecat pressed the siftkey
[09:18:53] <rkdavis> i half expect some of them to be in random case
[09:19:08] <dTal> no, it wasn't case
[09:19:23] <dTal> lowercase gives an error that it doesn't know what 'left' is
[09:19:35] <dTal> so I guess it does know what 'Left' is
[09:19:54] <dTal> it just won't give anything more helpfule than 'syntax error'
[09:22:16] <rkdavis> try Left_Meta
[09:22:49] <rkdavis> there seems to be no list of valid keynames other thna the typical answer of use the source
[09:24:14] <dTal> There's a few other meta combos
[09:24:28] <dTal> which I am endeavoring to copy exactly
[09:24:40] <dTal> how sensitive to things like tabs vs spaces is it?
[09:27:02] <rkdavis> doesn't seem to be but i try to use tabs if i remember for lining up
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[09:33:31] <rkdavis> http://xkcd.com/706/ lol
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[10:24:13] <dTal> can someone on a linux desktop where alt works as meta tell me what strings alt-left and alt-right correspond to?
[10:29:56] <dTal> Never mind.
[10:39:53] <dTal> Okay, this is weird. I defined the strings "Meta_Left" and "Meta_Right" as various escape sequences, with lines such as: string Meta_Left = "\033\033[D"
[10:40:29] <dTal> Yet loadkeys still complains: unknown keysym 'Meta_Left'
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[10:51:07] <dTal> Okay, that's dumb.
[10:51:41] <dTal> You can assign arbitrary strings to functions, but it has to have heard the function name before.
[10:52:01] <dTal> So I can't use Meta_Left, but I can use F35.
[10:52:10] <dTal> Stupid stupis stupid.
[10:56:28] <dTal> And it still doesn't work.
[10:56:54] <dTal> Hm, so maybe it isn't even reading the string declaration?
[11:04:16] <dTal> Okay, at least it reads the string declaration if I put it at the start of the file. Evidently it parses the file sequentially. Why the f*** are all the string definitions at the end then?
[11:04:36] <dTal> I am in awe of how dumb this is.
[11:11:13] <rkdavis> did you try clearing the string table first?
[11:14:26] <dTal> I don't know what that means.
[11:14:43] <dTal> But dumpkeys says I have 8 keymaps in use.
[11:18:40] <dTal> holy crap it works
[11:19:00] <dTal> It's still dumb I can't use Meta_Left and Meta_Right though.
[11:19:03] <rkdavis> dtal clearing the string table is by using -s when you run loadkeys
[11:19:29] <rkdavis> cool so you have simulated alt thingies for irssi?
[11:19:46] <dTal> no it doesn't work, I spoke to soon
[11:19:48] <dTal> again
[11:19:51] <dTal> dammit
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[11:23:08] <rkdavis> ugh
[11:25:32] <dTal> it seems it simply isn't respecting that keystroke
[11:26:31] <rkdavis> hmmmmm
[11:28:43] <dTal> or indeed any modifier with arrows
[11:29:57] <dTal> althought that may be a different reason
[11:30:09] <rkdavis> ok there must be a way to do this -- let me dig in some code for a few
[11:30:28] <dTal> I want to know why this isn't working
[11:30:31] <dTal> it should
[11:30:51] <dTal> it's not even the escape sequence
[11:31:15] <dTal> I have it set now so that alt-left should print "shpoople"
[11:31:20] <dTal> it doesn't
[11:32:16] <dTal> but if I assign that same symbol to the simple 's' key, it does
[11:33:26] <rkdavis> this is rootnexus thus debian isn't it?
[11:33:34] <dTal> nothing untoward in showkey, all presses and releases registered
[11:33:35] <dTal> yes
[11:34:01] <dTal> I might try this same routine in your plain jane keymap
[11:34:09] <dTal> maybe a conflict somewhere
[11:34:14] <rkdavis> ok i have a suggestion -- it probably won't work but lets try changing the arrows keycodes and see if there is something hinky about the numbering
[11:34:26] <rkdavis> do you have the prog setkeycoses?
[11:34:32] <rkdavis> setkeycodes even
[11:34:40] <dTal> yes
[11:34:56] <dTal> but this sounds unneccesary
[11:34:59] <rkdavis> ok run showkey -s and get the scan code of the arrows
[11:35:23] <rkdavis> well i'm wondering if there is something hinky with the keys in the 100s
[11:36:07] <dTal> 0x69 0xe9
[11:36:07] <dTal> 0x6a 0xea
[11:36:20] <dTal> first is left press and release, second is right
[11:37:02] <rkdavis> ok
[11:37:07] <rkdavis> oh just try something
[11:37:13] <rkdavis> press and release the alt key
[11:37:19] <rkdavis> and one of the letter keys
[11:37:59] <dTal> 0x38 0xb8
[11:37:59] <dTal> 0x1f 0x9f
[11:38:02] <dTal> alt and s
[11:38:30] <rkdavis> ok so iirc setkeycodes lets you assign a scan code to produce a keycode
[11:39:06] <rkdavis> so try setkeycodes 0x69 something
[11:39:18] <rkdavis> but look for a currently unused keycode below 100
[11:41:57] <dTal> I'm more curious as to why it doesn't work now
[11:46:41] <dTal> okay it works with yours
[11:46:54] <dTal> alt-left makes "shpoople!"
[11:47:17] <dTal> so something else in that file is interfering
[11:49:53] <dTal> and if I set the escape codes right it works in irssi
[11:50:14] <dTal> seems I'm better off adding to your barebones keymap after all!
[11:51:25] <rkdavis> well i'm like you i'd love to know why things aren't working right -- it's bloody annoying
[11:51:54] <dTal> it's something in that keymap
[11:53:33] <rkdavis> it could be the numbers at the top -- i never really got that sussed i sort of know it but not comfertable with it exactly
[11:58:03] <dTal> Those just say what combinations of modifiers are allowed
[11:58:16] <dTal> and we know alt is allowed on its own
[12:04:58] <rkdavis> bbiab kid needs comp
[12:29:37] <netbook> dern kids
[12:29:45] * netbook shakes fist
[12:44:18] <Mcavity> humm looks like theres some sort of tron 2 event today
[12:45:37] <Mcavity> http://www.flynnlives.com/zerohour.htm
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[12:52:11] <rkdavis> http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/02/500x_markasemail_500p.jpg
[12:52:36] <Mcavity> pthh
[12:58:17] <rkdavis> yum toasted chicken salad sandwiches for lunch
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[15:32:37] <s-hell1> hi everybody
[15:33:16] <Gnuet> hello dr nick
[15:33:32] <s-hell1> i tried to run the "image" from aliosa27 but it doesn't detects the wlan card
[15:33:44] <s-hell1> what should i do?
[15:33:52] <aliosa27> did you add the firmware files
[15:33:59] <aliosa27> and what is the output of dmesg
[15:33:59] <Gnuet> that's because you need to get the firmware onto ze card.
[15:35:28] <s-hell1> firmware files? do you mean the gsp... files?
[15:36:48] <aliosa27> yepp
[15:39:12] <s-hell1> Ouch! Ok, my fault!
[15:45:23] <s-hell1> and if i would like to use audio and mouse, then i just have to extract the package to the sdcard?
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[16:07:20] <s-hell1> Ok, one more question: If i type in reboot or init 0 it doesn't work. It says it will, but it do nothing.
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[18:56:02] <rkdavis> evening all
[18:58:55] <dTal> evening
[18:59:00] <dTal> more keymap maddness
[19:01:34] <dTal> the plain keymap you sent me is weird rkdavis
[19:01:41] <rkdavis> ok what is it this time?
[19:01:48] <dTal> the number one doesn't work properly
[19:01:54] <rkdavis> on the full moon all the keys reverse?
[19:02:09] <dTal> and the thing I did for irssi only works for left, not right
[19:02:13] <rkdavis> ok
[19:02:28] <rkdavis> well lets look at the 1 key first
[19:02:31] <dTal> in both cases they are configured identically to the ones that work
[19:02:38] <dTal> I swear it's mocking me
[19:02:43] <rkdavis> you using my skeleton or did you do one from scratch?
[19:02:47] <dTal> skeleton
[19:02:55] <rkdavis> it probably is mocking you
[19:03:00] <rkdavis> zipits are sentiant
[19:03:13] <dTal> alt-left, perfect
[19:03:18] <dTal> alt-right, zipt
[19:03:21] <dTal> zip
[19:03:37] <rkdavis> ok let me bring up my skeleton and we'll see what's changed
[19:04:07] <dTal> I found a mistake in it too
[19:04:18] <rkdavis> ok so the one is on key 16
[19:04:25] <dTal> I forget what it was though, maybe I should undo a few levels to see
[19:04:28] <rkdavis> oh cool the alt shift j?
[19:04:45] <rkdavis> that was broken for a while i might not have fixed it in this map yet
[19:05:21] <rkdavis> i do see a mistake in the skeleton ketmap anyway on the 1 key
[19:05:30] <rkdavis> there are two alt definitions
[19:06:14] <rkdavis> probbaly crept in when i was switching from altgr to alt for the map i wa s/publishing/
[19:06:16] <dTal> no something else
[19:06:35] <rkdavis> ok what was the error?
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[19:13:18] <dTal> hmm well I see part of the problem
[19:13:28] <dTal> I was loading the wrong file
[19:13:46] <dTal> can you assign a string to a key without going through a keysym?
[19:15:07] <dTal> I am wholly unimpressed by this whole system, unless I'm missing something major
[19:16:11] <rkdavis> well the fact you can override the kernel keymap and do it arbitarily is very good
[19:16:26] <rkdavis> it could be cleaner and less complicated yes but the ability is good
[19:17:18] <dTal> this keysym system is ludicrous
[19:17:47] <dTal> I can only define stuff in terms of things Linux already knows about
[19:18:12] <rkdavis> how do you mean? it's actually simple itheoretically but the impl. is a bit lacking that's all
[19:18:19] <dTal> there *is* no Meta_Left or Meta_Right, for no reason apart from oversight
[19:18:26] <dTal> and I can't add one
[19:18:47] <dTal> so to get the functionality I'm forced to overload another keysym
[19:19:02] <rkdavis> no you can only define what is in the source i.e. use the symbols that were in the source as in any s/w
[19:19:26] <rkdavis> if you don't tell the source a name to use then it won't know it but all it is is nmonic for an enum
[19:19:36] <rkdavis> if you wanted to work out the value you could use that
[19:20:10] <dTal> I don't see what's so hard about "kernel gets keypress, kernel returns ascii string"
[19:20:18] <rkdavis> it's not the best way but that's how s/w works you cna't use a constant that hasn't been defined
[19:21:10] <dTal> they added "kernel has default list of ascii strings", but for some reson also "kernel restricted to referring to ascii strings by names on its predefined list"
[19:22:35] <dTal> I can assign strings in the keymap, why not keysym names?
[19:22:46] <rkdavis> well blame whever compiled your kernel for that
[19:22:55] <dTal> why does everything have to go through keysyms anyway?
[19:23:01] <rkdavis> because that's not how it works
[19:23:09] <rkdavis> a keysym is a reserved name
[19:23:16] <rkdavis> a string is a string
[19:23:24] <dTal> why can't a keymap just be a bunch of strings in double quotes?
[19:23:30] <rkdavis> you can't call a variable or constant by a reserved name
[19:23:33] <dTal> assigned to keys and modifiers
[19:24:19] <rkdavis> because that's not how the kernel was desgned. if you don't like it write your own kernel or complain to linus :) -- this is how things are and you have to work within the limitations
[19:24:52] <dTal> I mean, there is a very large number of potential combinations of keypresses
[19:24:56] <rkdavis> and strings are not supposed to be used like that, strings are supposed to be /macros/
[19:25:31] <dTal> 8 potential modifiers, hundred odd keys, 800 potential keysyms?
[19:25:43] <dTal> and only a few hundred defined?
[19:25:49] <dTal> and this is *flexible*?
[19:25:54] <rkdavis> well it's 256 potential modieiers and 256 potential keys
[19:26:10] <rkdavis> it's just we don't use them all
[19:26:15] <dTal> I was talking practically speaking, but that's even worse
[19:26:32] <dTal> we don't use them all, but we might want to use any of them
[19:27:07] <rkdavis> and you can -- want to add a keysym edit the kernel source and add it
[19:27:13] <dTal> Pragmatically speaking, how should I resolve this cleanly?
[19:27:31] <rkdavis> stop using irssi :)
[19:28:05] <dTal> In other words, there isn't a way.
[19:28:11] <rkdavis> or find some other keystroke that has the same effect in irssi -- it probably has a couple of ways to do the alt thing
[19:28:19] <dTal> It's not just irssi
[19:28:37] <rkdavis> i don't know if there is a way or not, i've neber come across it so i've never had to solve it
[19:28:37] <dTal> esc works as a meta in irssi fine
[19:28:56] <dTal> but I want alt-arrows to be meta-arrows
[19:29:02] <dTal> in doom that's strafe
[19:29:20] <dTal> in mozilla it's back and forward
[19:29:26] <dTal> I'm sure there's others
[19:30:57] <rkdavis> well first of all it works for me to redefine them but i don't bother with meta stuff i do it directly and second of all you just need to get the kernel dource and read the key.h header and a couple of others and it'll give you the keysyms
[19:31:57] <rkdavis> and are you doing things like clearing the keymap before loading your new one -- that could be cauing problems
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[19:33:00] <dTal> does -s do this for me? otherwise no
[19:34:17] <rkdavis> yes and also -c too
[19:34:29] <rkdavis> and there is another option too but i forget off hand
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[19:42:36] <Adnyxo> hello
[19:42:59] <dTal> perhaps changing the meta mode is the way to go after all
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[21:55:13] <needhelp2> Hi, I am getting an error on running "fakeroot" on "rootnexus"...it says "fakeroot, while creating message channels: Function not implemented...This may be due to a lack of SYSV IPC support....", any idea ?
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[21:56:53] <capitalsown> Does the zipit come with a video player?
[21:57:06] <capitalsown> er
[21:57:24] <capitalsown> rephrased: Does Jag's userland come with a video player?
[22:00:33] <needhelp2> dont know as I have not tried it.
[22:01:17] <capitalsown> I'm thinking of trying to load a tv episode onto it and seeing how it runs
[22:02:35] <capitalsown> Also, of course ATI driver would break my Fedora
[22:02:40] <capitalsown> I had to reinstall :p
[22:02:55] <capitalsown> Next computer is using Nvidia
[22:03:10] <needhelp2> where do you get Jag's userland ?
[22:04:46] <capitalsown> rootnexus
[22:04:50] <capitalsown> zipit.rootnexus.com
[22:04:53] <capitalsown> I believe
[22:05:10] <capitalsown> are you running linux?
[22:05:25] <Mcavity> yes its called mplayer =)
[22:05:44] <Mcavity> capital you realy will need to transcode it down
[22:07:02] <capitalsown> I know, I know
[22:07:37] <capitalsown> If it runs well, though, I might just get a huge sd and load a few shows on it for plane rides and road trips :P
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[22:56:52] <capitalsown> So I'm tryna put a file on my zipit's filesystme
[22:56:55] <capitalsown> on Fedora
[22:57:03] <capitalsown> but I'm getting denied
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